Unique Traffic Signals

Discussion about street lighting, road signs, traffic signals - and all other street furniture - goes here.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
OliverH
Member
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by OliverH »

here I found a Microsense bike traffic light
User avatar
Beardy5632
Member
Posts: 1435
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 16:45
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Beardy5632 »

I've seen plenty of cycle lights about but this crossing in Cheltenham is probably the only example I've seen where the cyclists have turning restrictions.
British & Irish cities driven in - 48/75
England - 36/52, Scotland - 7/7, Wales - 5/6, NI - 0/5, RoI - 0/5
Rambo
Member
Posts: 1055
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 19:56
Contact:

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Rambo »

Possibly one for the botch thread but i noticed several of these signal heads in Crewe with the left turn blanked out by a 20mph roundel https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0880098 ... 384!8i8192
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Chris Bertram »

Rambo wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 19:47 Possibly one for the botch thread but i noticed several of these signal heads in Crewe with the left turn blanked out by a 20mph roundel https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0880098 ... 384!8i8192
Looks like an illegal use of a box sign right there. Surely they can only contain turn restrictions or mandatory turn signs, possibly with "Except for ..." additions?
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

OliverH wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 23:24 here's another example of a modifcation: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7925024 ... 312!8i6656

sometime later the "wait here" was removed from the older push-button boxes.
They're a West Yorkshire special, as far as I know. I think they were installed with the previous Microsense LSH heads before Microsense had developed their compact PBU, so were used where only buttons were required. They're a bit daft given they lack any kind of confirmation signal - a unit like the ones photographed above would've been better, IMO.
L.J.D wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 21:04
Big L wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 20:44
L.J.D wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 19:59 I've posted this on here before. Its certainly unique and also hideous looking I've never seen anything like it before. I can't fathom why they've installed the pole that way. But then again as discussed on other threads TfL are in a word of their own when it comes to signals.
Is that post upside down?
It looks it. I'm assuming there's a reason for it though. My eyes nearly fell out when I first saw it :shock: :lol:
I can only assume that's a botch to get the PBU in the correct position because the retention socket is in the wrong location, but what a mess!
L.J.D wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 21:19 Sorry for a double post but I also spotted these rare cyclist mellors in Leeds a while ago also. I've never seen two big aspects together like that other than on pedestrian heads.
They're fantastic, are these ones still going? They're to the original (non-)standard for cycle signals, prior to the all-200mm one being introduced in the 1994 TSRGD. The Plessey ones were even more bizarre, being essentially the standard ped head surmounted by a red 200mm aspect in another housing, whereas these GEC ones had purpose built 200/300/300 housings.

IMG_20190407_104741.jpg
IMG_20190407_104743.jpg

Another unusual one from the same junction...
IMG_20190407_104439.jpg
Beardy5632 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 18:09 I've seen plenty of cycle lights about but this crossing in Cheltenham is probably the only example I've seen where the cyclists have turning restrictions.
It's actually quite common, particularly where there's a parallel ped crossing and so the cycle phase is technically a conflict with the ped phase.
jervi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 23:16Also when there is one-lane northbound and lots of traffic then people wanting to turn left have to wait in traffic as the left & ahead traffic are in the same lane, while the closed ahead lane is empty.
Is this the junction where they replaced some of the wicket signs with the 'European style' merge sign to try and get people to use both lanes when queuing? I believe the consensus of the general public was that the wicket sign indicated that the lane was already closed, as per the red 'x', and were leaving the lane clear for the whole approach to the tidal flow system as a result.
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 20:38
Rambo wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 19:47 Possibly one for the botch thread but i noticed several of these signal heads in Crewe with the left turn blanked out by a 20mph roundel https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0880098 ... 384!8i8192
Looks like an illegal use of a box sign right there. Surely they can only contain turn restrictions or mandatory turn signs, possibly with "Except for ..." additions?
Definitely incorrect box signs, which I believe have been mentioned before somewhere in the depths of the botched signals thread. And yes, you're correct, the only permitted signs for inclusion in a signal head are mandatory movements, banned turns, no entry and exemption plates.
Simon
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1594
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by jervi »

traffic-light-man wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 21:10
jervi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 23:16Also when there is one-lane northbound and lots of traffic then people wanting to turn left have to wait in traffic as the left & ahead traffic are in the same lane, while the closed ahead lane is empty.
Is this the junction where they replaced some of the wicket signs with the 'European style' merge sign to try and get people to use both lanes when queuing? I believe the consensus of the general public was that the wicket sign indicated that the lane was already closed, as per the red 'x', and were leaving the lane clear for the whole approach to the tidal flow system as a result.
Yes, although its only on the first (of two) VMS when heading North into the city on the B1188. The right arrow has a 45 degree bend at the top going left.
All of the other VMSs have red wickets, although when approaching from the A1434 (old A15) the wickets are on the left side and right turns are fine from that lane.

Maybe I am just part of the "general public", but I thought a red wicket without a distance plate does indicate that the lane is closed?

Although as I said before, the tidal flow on Canwick Road is not needed since the bypass has opened. The road width along Canwick Road is 8.5m so could be better if that was reduced to 7m and the 1.5m left to widen the western footway to make it into a shared space. Of course would be better to have a cycle lanes / tracks but there isn't room to build a two-way cycle track as well as having a footway.
User avatar
ReissOmari
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 21:51
Location: Birmingham

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by ReissOmari »

I've always thought these are quite unique, and probably some of the oldest traffic signals still running in Birmingham. Also all original heads too, minus one ped unit and the higher signals which were upgraded to LED some years back.

Also, this is unique, or botched? :laugh:
ReissOmari..
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Chris Bertram »

ReissOmari wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 15:50 I've always thought these are quite unique, and probably some of the oldest traffic signals still running in Birmingham. Also all original heads too, minus one ped unit and the higher signals which were upgraded to LED some years back.

Also, this is unique, or botched? :laugh:
Casual replacement?
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
L.J.D
Member
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 06:34
Location: W.Yorkshire

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D »

One here too looking exactly the same.
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

jervi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 22:09Maybe I am just part of the "general public", but I thought a red wicket without a distance plate does indicate that the lane is closed?
I believe it's still just an advance warning, though I can see the confusion, especially as the other, more common type of illuminated wicket sign is the motorway signal where the sign should be treated as absolute.

The ideal situation is more lane control signals using the diagonal arrow at the appropriate location, but installing more mast arms is a lot more cost prohibitive than a few pole mounted VMS.
ReissOmari wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 15:50 I've always thought these are quite unique, and probably some of the oldest traffic signals still running in Birmingham. Also all original heads too, minus one ped unit and the higher signals which were upgraded to LED some years back.
Are those still going? I thought they'd have gone by now, but yes, they are unique. I'm aware of some Microsense LSH in Swansea (IIRC) that had a 200mm green LED bus, but they were a one-off and long gone.

There are, of course, these and these, which are possibly the epitome for unique traffic signals.

There's also the West Yorkshire guided busway signals, although I believe all of the LSH signal heads like the one in my photograph have been retired now, replaced with Telent 4G heads in the same arrangement. There are also Peek Elites in an all-halogen arrangement, apologies for the rubbish photo.

DSCF2450.JPG
DSCF3959.JPG
ReissOmari wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 15:50Also, this is unique, or botched? :laugh:
Ah yes, those odd-balls. There's quite a few around Liverpool given the amount of Microsense MSH in the area. But yes, definitely a 'casual' replacement on one door, resulting in a completely non-compliant signal face. Of course MSH signal heads were the only signal heads on the market available with a door in either 300mm or 200mm for regular aspects, hence this appears to happen solely with MSH.
Simon
OliverH
Member
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by OliverH »

A microsense junction that for some reason had its pedestrian signals replaced with Peek ones.
This Junction has now had its signals replaced with LED Peeks.
User avatar
Gareth
Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 19:16
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Gareth »

Another classic is this, in the Sheldon area of Birmingham...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.45177 ... 384!8i8192

I'm assuming it's unique as I don't know a setup like it anywhere else, which has only overhead signals on a given approach. I wonder what the history behind it is and if it's actually compliant. Each direction/movement has to have at least one primary signal which must be at the stop line. Even though there's several at the line, I'm not sure overhead signals can be considered primary. All in all, a delightful mishmash of Dutch and North American practice.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Chris Bertram »

Gareth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 21:07 Another classic is this, in the Sheldon area of Birmingham...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.45177 ... 384!8i8192

I'm assuming it's unique as I don't know a setup like it anywhere else, which has only overhead signals on a given approach. I wonder what the history behind it is and if it's actually compliant. Each direction/movement has to have at least one primary signal which must be at the stop line. Even though there's several at the line, I'm not sure overhead signals can be considered primary. All in all, a delightful mishmash of Dutch and North American practice.
That junction has had gantries for decades, probably over 50 years, and I don't ever remember pole-mounted signals on the Coventry Road. If it's illegal, Birmingham city council have been winging it for a long time.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Gareth
Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 19:16
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Gareth »

Maybe it was an experiment that got DfT permission with no sunset clause.

I'd be interested to know though. Going from memory (which may be inaccurate or out of date), there must be at least one primary signal per movement, preferably on the left-hand side for through traffic but can be put right-hand side if necessary. A duplicate primary isn't necessary but recommended on roads with three or more lanes on approach. It mentions nothing about mast arm or gantry signals, although with the rule-of-thumb guide that says the recommended number of signal heads per movement is the number of lanes plus one, but insists that mast arm or gantry's do not count towards the tally, it seems unlikely to me that they can be counted as primary signals.
OliverH
Member
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by OliverH »

found this neer, York.
User avatar
Nathan_A_RF
Member
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:53
Location: East Sussex/Southampton
Contact:

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

I suspect there were fears, or rather more worryingly, actual incidents, of traffic turning immediately right into the wrong carriageway.
User avatar
the cheesecake man
Member
Posts: 2457
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 13:21
Location: Sheffield

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by the cheesecake man »

Perhaps the green arrow should be the same shape to reduce the risk of confusion further?
Little Owl
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 17:23

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by Little Owl »

Near Highbury, there seems to be a set of signals with conditional turn restrictions that appear to fog over when not in force. What kind of model is that?
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

Little Owl wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 22:38 Near Highbury, there seems to be a set of signals with conditional turn restrictions that appear to fog over when not in force. What kind of model is that?
They're Siemens Helios CLS signals with the newer secret sign adapter also offered by Siemens. It essentially turns transparent when power is applied (or visa versa, I can't be 100% sure off the top of my head!)

I much prefer the older version, but I suspect there's some reason to have changed to these monstrosities.
Simon
User avatar
L.J.D
Member
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 06:34
Location: W.Yorkshire

Re: Unique Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D »

Check out these oddballs!!

Mellors before

Elites after

Never seen anything like that before where the main lights are off and arrow left on :o
Post Reply