Signs on the A3 in London

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qwertyK
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Signs on the A3 in London

Post by qwertyK »

Why is the “A3” designation in white as opposed to yellow? I’ve only really seen this on the A3, and just wondered why.
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Chris5156
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Chris5156 »

Like these? Just crap design, sadly. You occasionally see white instead of yellow - it's not confined to the A3 or to London. Most signs on the A3 within London (and elsewhere) do have the numbers in yellow.

It looks like the one way system at East Hill has had all its signs renewed recently, and whoever designed them made a bodge of them all. Here's one a bit further along that's correct.

You'd think that a basic mistake of this kind, which is very easy to spot, would be picked up by a competent person (even just any person who had paid attention to the Highway Code while learning to drive) as part of the quality control process. But sadly that's not the case. Highway engineering in general, and sign design in particular, is seriously lacking talent at the moment. You have to conclude that the whole process of commissioning, designing, checking, manufacturing and installing all those signs at East Hill did not involve a competent person at any stage.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by WHBM »

I think it's a TfL supplier that does this. I pass this one daily and have noticed the same. Google Streetview shows it's been like it for at least 10 years. I used to wonder if it had just used a particular yellow paint which had faded.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.506915, ... 384!8i8192

Do the example signs face south into the sun ? I notice the others around the same roundabout as my example, facing north and/or in the shadow of the flyover, presumably the same vintage, are correctly showing yellow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.507793, ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by OliverH »

WHBM wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 09:39 I think it's a TfL supplier that does this. I pass this one daily and have noticed the same. Google Streetview shows it's been like it for at least 10 years. I used to wonder if it had just used a particular yellow paint which had faded.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.506915, ... 384!8i8192

Do the example signs face south into the sun ? I notice the others around the same roundabout as my example, facing north and/or in the shadow of the flyover, presumably the same vintage, are correctly showing yellow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.507793, ... 384!8i8192
never seen a sign with non-rounded edges!
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by OliverH »

Chris5156 wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 06:57 Like these? Just crap design, sadly. You occasionally see white instead of yellow - it's not confined to the A3 or to London. Most signs on the A3 within London (and elsewhere) do have the numbers in yellow.

It looks like the one way system at East Hill has had all its signs renewed recently, and whoever designed them made a bodge of them all. Here's one a bit further along that's correct.

You'd think that a basic mistake of this kind, which is very easy to spot, would be picked up by a competent person (even just any person who had paid attention to the Highway Code while learning to drive) as part of the quality control process. But sadly that's not the case. Highway engineering in general, and sign design in particular, is seriously lacking talent at the moment. You have to conclude that the whole process of commissioning, designing, checking, manufacturing and installing all those signs at East Hill did not involve a competent person at any stage.
never seen a blue sign with a lorry weight restriction in it.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Bryn666 »

OliverH wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:52
Chris5156 wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 06:57 Like these? Just crap design, sadly. You occasionally see white instead of yellow - it's not confined to the A3 or to London. Most signs on the A3 within London (and elsewhere) do have the numbers in yellow.

It looks like the one way system at East Hill has had all its signs renewed recently, and whoever designed them made a bodge of them all. Here's one a bit further along that's correct.

You'd think that a basic mistake of this kind, which is very easy to spot, would be picked up by a competent person (even just any person who had paid attention to the Highway Code while learning to drive) as part of the quality control process. But sadly that's not the case. Highway engineering in general, and sign design in particular, is seriously lacking talent at the moment. You have to conclude that the whole process of commissioning, designing, checking, manufacturing and installing all those signs at East Hill did not involve a competent person at any stage.
never seen a blue sign with a lorry weight restriction in it.
Those are for the London Lorry Control Zone, and are a special abomination, sorry, authorisation.

As for yellow text; it does fade if the material used is cack. See also red signs that are now various degrees of pink.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by DavidB »

I saw quite a few signs with white road numbers while driving through Dorset a couple of weeks ago, here's two examples:

https://goo.gl/maps/C2ee557xPdZEuUNP8

https://goo.gl/maps/RRrdR3wjrmefyKDS9
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Skipsy »

Keeping to the A3, I always find this sign to just be so 'empty'?
I assume this is just because it was tweaked when they blocked Robin Hood Gate for motorists but its just so lacklustre looking.
Posted in another thread before, but technically not the A3, just next to it is this sign. I don't know how you can get it that wrong!
This could maybe do with showing the straight on lane into Old York Road.
Diagonal right turn filtre light!
So misused.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Bryn666 »

Skipsy wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 23:22 Keeping to the A3, I always find this sign to just be so 'empty'?
I assume this is just because it was tweaked when they blocked Robin Hood Gate for motorists but its just so lacklustre looking.
Posted in another thread before, but technically not the A3, just next to it is this sign. I don't know how you can get it that wrong!
This could maybe do with showing the straight on lane into Old York Road.
Diagonal right turn filtre light!
So misused.
That last one is fine though? It's telling you two way traffic crosses the end of a one way street.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Skipsy »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 08:51
Skipsy wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 23:22 Keeping to the A3, I always find this sign to just be so 'empty'?
I assume this is just because it was tweaked when they blocked Robin Hood Gate for motorists but its just so lacklustre looking.
Posted in another thread before, but technically not the A3, just next to it is this sign. I don't know how you can get it that wrong!
This could maybe do with showing the straight on lane into Old York Road.
Diagonal right turn filtre light!
So misused.
That last one is fine though? It's telling you two way traffic crosses the end of a one way street.
Nah they're meant to be used only if the one way street continues over the junction
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by DavidBrown »

Skipsy wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 17:52 Nah they're meant to be used only if the one way street continues over the junction
Not a clue where you've got that from, but safe to say it's not correct.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Big L »

DavidBrown wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 19:46
Skipsy wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 17:52 Nah they're meant to be used only if the one way street continues over the junction
Not a clue where you've got that from, but safe to say it's not correct.
I imagine there is the implication of the word "crosses" in the highway code.
20210708_194917.jpg
Does the vertical line in a T cross the horizontal one?
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Bryn666 »

Big L wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 19:52
DavidBrown wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 19:46
Skipsy wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 17:52 Nah they're meant to be used only if the one way street continues over the junction
Not a clue where you've got that from, but safe to say it's not correct.
I imagine there is the implication of the word "crosses" in the highway code.
20210708_194917.jpg
Does the vertical line in a T cross the horizontal one?
TSM Ch. 4 has the answer:
5.2.2.  Diagram 522 (S2-2-17, see Figure 5-3) is generally used on a one-way road to indicate
that a road it joins or one that crosses it carries two-way traffic. It is normally sited on the back
of the “no entry” sign. However, it might also be helpful on a two-way road where it is crossed by
another two-way road after a succession of intersections with one-way roads. It is not normally
appropriate in an urban low speed environment where one way roads are regularly encountered
and other visual clues exist as to the nature of the road. It may be used with a distance plate
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Chris5156
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Chris5156 »

Skipsy wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 23:22Keeping to the A3, I always find this sign to just be so 'empty'?
I assume this is just because it was tweaked when they blocked Robin Hood Gate for motorists but its just so lacklustre looking.
Yes, the overplated section at top left would have said "Richmond Park" or something similar, with an arm in that direction where there is now a very faded red block. There would also have been an extra section of road in the middle of the junction, which did exist when this was an awkward roundabout. That's also why the width of all the lines in the junction diagram now look a bit off.

It could probably all be replaced with something much smaller and simpler now the junction has changed. It was designed (like all the signs on the Kingston Bypass) to full 70mph standards when traffic is now limited to 50 - meaning there's no need for it to be so big these days.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Truvelo »

Regarding white numbers instead of yellow. This one is clearly an error by the sign shop. If it had faded then all the yellow would have been affected.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZMgQNsWFXGiaxtXN8
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Bryn666 »

Truvelo wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 15:41 Regarding white numbers instead of yellow. This one is clearly an error by the sign shop. If it had faded then all the yellow would have been affected.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZMgQNsWFXGiaxtXN8
Only possible to achieve in CAD - SignPlot will always automatically colour a route number on a primary sign.
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by MotorwayGuy »

This one on the South Circular has faded and has been that way for at least 10 years. You can see in 2008 it had the correct yellow but whatever material they used didn't last long!
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

Also incorrect as the height limit should be before the side road stubs, not after
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by MotorwayGuy »

Another odd thing is the bridge was originally signed as a 4.5m restriction, then was changed to a 4.3m triangular warning, now is back to a circular restriction but 4.4m. I guess someone has a hard time measuring!
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Re: Signs on the A3 in London

Post by Skipsy »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 21:06 This one on the South Circular has faded and has been that way for at least 10 years. You can see in 2008 it had the correct yellow but whatever material they used didn't last long!
What's with this? Were right turns banned here before? Because you can still slighty see the no right turn sign
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