Old Concrete Signs Spikes
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Old Concrete Signs Spikes
It's something that's had me curious so thought I'd ask. What's the purpose of the large spikes on older concrete signs such as seen here - https://goo.gl/maps/WDGWeqE4MRaDnHGc7
They seem a rather bit dangerous especially the ones on the embankment which would go straight through the windscreen if you hit it at the wrong angle. They also seem rather dangerous if a motorbike hit them.
They seem a rather bit dangerous especially the ones on the embankment which would go straight through the windscreen if you hit it at the wrong angle. They also seem rather dangerous if a motorbike hit them.
Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
I'd make a guess at them being used to hold lights to illuminate the sign.
Although as you say leaving them like this is a potential hazard for penetrating any vehicles leaving the carriageway. The VRS is present (although old), which should stop most vehicles from leaving the carriageway.
Although as you say leaving them like this is a potential hazard for penetrating any vehicles leaving the carriageway. The VRS is present (although old), which should stop most vehicles from leaving the carriageway.
Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
They used to hold floodlights to illuminate the sign face.jabbaboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 20:08It's something that's had me curious so thought I'd ask. What's the purpose of the large spikes on older concrete signs such as seen here - https://goo.gl/maps/WDGWeqE4MRaDnHGc7
They're incredibly dangerous which is why they're no longer used, and any existing ones should be protected by a barrier if they haven't been removed. Most were taken down years ago. They used to be nicknamed the "prongs of death".They seem a rather bit dangerous especially the ones on the embankment which would go straight through the windscreen if you hit it at the wrong angle. They also seem rather dangerous if a motorbike hit them.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Thanks guys, not what I was expecting but certainly makes sense thinking about it (thought it was some form of early impact damage for the sign to stop it toppling on top of vehicles).
Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Already beaten to the post to reply, but yes, they're lighting supports.
https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/i ... 463509.jpg you can see them here, but weirdly not every junction had them: https://www.classicandsportscar.com/sit ... ways_5.png
https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/i ... 463509.jpg you can see them here, but weirdly not every junction had them: https://www.classicandsportscar.com/sit ... ways_5.png
Bryn
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Not just on motorways, occasionally unclassified roads had (have!) them:Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 14:31 Already beaten to the post to reply, but yes, they're lighting supports.
https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/i ... 463509.jpg you can see them here, but weirdly not every junction had them: https://www.classicandsportscar.com/sit ... ways_5.png
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.60428 ... 6656?hl=en
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
My god, how ugly is that bit of overkill?Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 17:53Not just on motorways, occasionally unclassified roads had (have!) them:Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 14:31 Already beaten to the post to reply, but yes, they're lighting supports.
https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/i ... 463509.jpg you can see them here, but weirdly not every junction had them: https://www.classicandsportscar.com/sit ... ways_5.png
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.60428 ... 6656?hl=en
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
It might look a bit nicer if it had ever had any maintenance throughout it's life. Which clearly it never has. But that's Wakefield for you...Isleworth1961 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 18:00My god, how ugly is that bit of overkill?Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 17:53Not just on motorways, occasionally unclassified roads had (have!) them:Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 14:31 Already beaten to the post to reply, but yes, they're lighting supports.
https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/i ... 463509.jpg you can see them here, but weirdly not every junction had them: https://www.classicandsportscar.com/sit ... ways_5.png
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.60428 ... 6656?hl=en
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
It was such a dangerous design it's amazing they were ever approved, there were accidents were the victims would have survived had the death prongs not been there.
Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Makes me wonder why such massive posts were needed for a sign on a minor road. The posts were clearly designed for a much larger sign anyway.Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 18:47It might look a bit nicer if it had ever had any maintenance throughout it's life. Which clearly it never has. But that's Wakefield for you...Isleworth1961 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 18:00My god, how ugly is that bit of overkill?Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 17:53 Not just on motorways, occasionally unclassified roads had (have!) them:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.60428 ... 6656?hl=en
Last edited by Isleworth1961 on Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
NI also has this big boy: https://goo.gl/maps/4riem6KjckcxHnkMAA42_Sparks wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:24 It was such a dangerous design it's amazing they were ever approved, there were accidents were the victims would have survived had the death prongs not been there.
Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
That's much better, you just have the lights crash down onto you after you've driven into the posts...Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:55NI also has this big boy: https://goo.gl/maps/4riem6KjckcxHnkMAA42_Sparks wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:24 It was such a dangerous design it's amazing they were ever approved, there were accidents were the victims would have survived had the death prongs not been there.
Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
They were standard posts used for directional signs as part of motorway schemes, so this sign will have been part of the original signing when that bit of the M1 was built all those decades ago.Isleworth1961 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:52Makes me wonder why such massive posts were needed for a sign on a minor road. The posts were clearly designed for a much larger sign anyway.Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 18:47It might look a bit nicer if it had ever had any maintenance throughout it's life. Which clearly it never has. But that's Wakefield for you...
Attached is a PDF of a very old Standard Detail for this type of post, copied as I very vaguely recall, from an ancient West Riding drawing.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
It's also easier to maintain the lights if they're at the sort of height someone can get to without the need for a cherry pickerA42_Sparks wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:24 It was such a dangerous design it's amazing they were ever approved, there were accidents were the victims would have survived had the death prongs not been there.
Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Not all that much safer. The light posts in the photo are not what would be classed as passively safe these days, so hitting them would probably result in injury. Plus if you hit the light posts, there'd be a very high chance you'd carry on into the very unforgiving reinforced concrete posts only a short distance further on.A42_Sparks wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:24 It was such a dangerous design it's amazing they were ever approved, there were accidents were the victims would have survived had the death prongs not been there.
Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Good grief. That was one of the earliest M1 sections (1964) and those look like they haven't been touched since.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:55 NI also has this big boy: https://goo.gl/maps/4riem6KjckcxHnkMA
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Yes good point, I probably should have said a slightly safer design.Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 21:18 Not all that much safer. The light posts in the photo are not what would be classed as passively safe these days, so hitting them would probably result in injury. Plus if you hit the light posts, there'd be a very high chance you'd carry on into the very unforgiving reinforced concrete posts only a short distance further on.
Many of the original concrete sign supports on this section are still in use including this magnificent specimen on the A42.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
Is there a specific document that details directional signing in NI, given they aren't covered the NI regs and many of the signs you can see on Streetview don't fully conform to TSM7? The one you linked to, for example is missing the chopsticks.A42_Sparks wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 23:01Yes good point, I probably should have said a slightly safer design.Conekicker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 21:18 Not all that much safer. The light posts in the photo are not what would be classed as passively safe these days, so hitting them would probably result in injury. Plus if you hit the light posts, there'd be a very high chance you'd carry on into the very unforgiving reinforced concrete posts only a short distance further on.
Many of the original concrete sign supports on this section are still in use including this magnificent specimen on the A42.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
As far as I know we don't have a NI-specific signing document, AndyB or nirs might know better.Conekicker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 07:46 Is there a specific document that details directional signing in NI, given they aren't covered the NI regs and many of the signs you can see on Streetview don't fully conform to TSM7? The one you linked to, for example is missing the chopsticks.
Signs not conforming to TSM7 is par for the course here. The one I linked to is a replacement for the original sign which had 'M2' in the incorrect Motorway font.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes
I have to wonder why the ones in the initial post haven't been removed. The "spikes" are clearly separate units - they seem to have slipped down from their original positions judging from the marks on the concrete posts. Even if the bolts are rusted, I can't imagine it taking too long to cut them.