Old Concrete Signs Spikes

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Conekicker
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes

Post by Conekicker »

SteelCamel wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 20:43
Chris5156 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 00:00 They're incredibly dangerous which is why they're no longer used, and any existing ones should be protected by a barrier if they haven't been removed. Most were taken down years ago. They used to be nicknamed the "prongs of death".
I have to wonder why the ones in the initial post haven't been removed. The "spikes" are clearly separate units - they seem to have slipped down from their original positions judging from the marks on the concrete posts. Even if the bolts are rusted, I can't imagine it taking too long to cut them.
That would involve some effort. Not much admittedly but some nonetheless. At which point Highway Authority Standard Excuse No. 1 is deployed, "We haven't got a budget for that". I'd guess you'd be looking at somewhere north of £800 to get rid of them, traffic management, labour and plant.

Plus if you start fiddling around with the assembly, you'll probably find that one or more of the posts are badly cracked to the point of instability, which means a new assembly completely. That would have to go in next years budget, or even the one after that.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes

Post by jabbaboy »

A42_Sparks wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 19:24 It was such a dangerous design it's amazing they were ever approved, there were accidents were the victims would have survived had the death prongs not been there.

Perhaps they were created to save money by housing the sign and the lights all in one fixture? On my local motorway they had a much safer design installed by 1972 with lights on metal posts separate from the sign's concrete legs. Thses are in still in place today although they no longer light up.
Think they're just the newer version, the ones on the same stretch of road got them as replacements at some point, can see them on one of the junctions (the ones on the mainline are long gone) together - https://goo.gl/maps/9o2GUTWr7fiLXZYW6.
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Chris5156
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes

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Conekicker wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 21:25
SteelCamel wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 20:43
Chris5156 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 00:00 They're incredibly dangerous which is why they're no longer used, and any existing ones should be protected by a barrier if they haven't been removed. Most were taken down years ago. They used to be nicknamed the "prongs of death".
I have to wonder why the ones in the initial post haven't been removed. The "spikes" are clearly separate units - they seem to have slipped down from their original positions judging from the marks on the concrete posts. Even if the bolts are rusted, I can't imagine it taking too long to cut them.
That would involve some effort. Not much admittedly but some nonetheless. At which point Highway Authority Standard Excuse No. 1 is deployed, "We haven't got a budget for that". I'd guess you'd be looking at somewhere north of £800 to get rid of them, traffic management, labour and plant.

Plus if you start fiddling around with the assembly, you'll probably find that one or more of the posts are badly cracked to the point of instability, which means a new assembly completely. That would have to go in next years budget, or even the one after that.
The other explanation is that they are protected by a substantial length of safety barrier. When first installed they would have had no protection at all, and a stray vehicle would have gone straight into the sign with the prongs coming straight through the windscreen. Now the guard rail would prevent that, so that is presumably another reason to spend the money elsewhere.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes

Post by Conekicker »

Chris5156 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 18:41
Conekicker wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 21:25
SteelCamel wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 20:43

I have to wonder why the ones in the initial post haven't been removed. The "spikes" are clearly separate units - they seem to have slipped down from their original positions judging from the marks on the concrete posts. Even if the bolts are rusted, I can't imagine it taking too long to cut them.
That would involve some effort. Not much admittedly but some nonetheless. At which point Highway Authority Standard Excuse No. 1 is deployed, "We haven't got a budget for that". I'd guess you'd be looking at somewhere north of £800 to get rid of them, traffic management, labour and plant.

Plus if you start fiddling around with the assembly, you'll probably find that one or more of the posts are badly cracked to the point of instability, which means a new assembly completely. That would have to go in next years budget, or even the one after that.
The other explanation is that they are protected by a substantial length of safety barrier. When first installed they would have had no protection at all, and a stray vehicle would have gone straight into the sign with the prongs coming straight through the windscreen. Now the guard rail would prevent that, so that is presumably another reason to spend the money elsewhere.
Discrete lengths of barrier protecting only the sign - there have been a number of fatalities over the years where a vehicle has managed to go behind the barrier and then hit the sign assembly. If the barrier run is there for some other purpose and is thus longer than a discrete length (39m from memory but I could easily be wrong), then, yes, the barrier might prevent a vehicle from hitting the sign assembly.
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Re: Old Concrete Signs Spikes

Post by AndyB »

A42_Sparks wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 13:22
Conekicker wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 07:46 Is there a specific document that details directional signing in NI, given they aren't covered the NI regs and many of the signs you can see on Streetview don't fully conform to TSM7? The one you linked to, for example is missing the chopsticks.
As far as I know we don't have a NI-specific signing document, AndyB or nirs might know better.

Signs not conforming to TSM7 is par for the course here. The one I linked to is a replacement for the original sign which had 'M2' in the incorrect Motorway font.
TSM7 is the book here - officially!

NI never had prongs of death as far as I'm aware, but separately mounted floods were the norm. Our sign lighting requirements are much lighter than GB, relying on the retroreflectivity of modern signs.
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