Roundabout lane guidance signing

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stryder
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Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by stryder »

I came across this advanced guide sign from Australia which indicates which lane a driver should go in for a roundabout to take their exit. Has any equivalent of this been used in the UK?

Capture.JPG

Would the closest equivalent be the GET IN LANE signs on the approaches to some roundabouts?
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c2R
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by c2R »

Yeah, we'd use GET IN LANE, or gantries.

Germany does something similar - the real problem is that although it's fine if you've got a couple of lanes, when you've got something with six lanes on approach, the signs start to get very cluttered indeed.

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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by Bryn666 »

Our refusal to properly sign roundabouts beyond a map sign is one of the reasons many of them don't work. Gantries are expensive as well, so those are an absolute last resort.

However Manchester did once experiment with Australian style signs, not very successfully I will add:

https://goo.gl/maps/GncwK6xiNChj74Ta7
https://goo.gl/maps/MvYDVMNQ9it74CDv8
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c2R
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by c2R »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 16:49 Our refusal to properly sign roundabouts beyond a map sign is one of the reasons many of them don't work. Gantries are expensive as well, so those are an absolute last resort.

However Manchester did once experiment with Australian style signs, not very successfully I will add:

https://goo.gl/maps/GncwK6xiNChj74Ta7
https://goo.gl/maps/MvYDVMNQ9it74CDv8
Interestingly, Manchester is also where I was thinking of the gantries - the sheer amount of street furniture at Portwood will live with me until the end of my days https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4161917 ... 384!8i8192

Not to mention those lights, where the designers have clearly gone for more metal...
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 16:49 Our refusal to properly sign roundabouts beyond a map sign is one of the reasons many of them don't work. Gantries are expensive as well, so those are an absolute last resort.

However Manchester did once experiment with Australian style signs, not very successfully I will add:

https://goo.gl/maps/GncwK6xiNChj74Ta7
https://goo.gl/maps/MvYDVMNQ9it74CDv8
An attempt was made. Probably no need to repeat it :no:
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by MotorwayGuy »

I've noticed on roundabouts built or refurbished since the mid 2000s they seem to like marking the right lane of roundabouts with an ahead arrow despite the fact the lane is obviously only meant for turning right.
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c2R
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by c2R »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:14 I've noticed on roundabouts built or refurbished since the mid 2000s they seem to like marking the right lane of roundabouts with an ahead arrow despite the fact the lane is obviously only meant for turning right.
It's to avoid instructing someone turning right when they hit the circulatory carriageway...
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by MotorwayGuy »

c2R wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:18
MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:14 I've noticed on roundabouts built or refurbished since the mid 2000s they seem to like marking the right lane of roundabouts with an ahead arrow despite the fact the lane is obviously only meant for turning right.
It's to avoid instructing someone turning right when they hit the circulatory carriageway...
As if the big blue arrow sign and chevron signs aren't a clue! The fact it isn't even consistent makes it worse, with many roundabouts still having them.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by jervi »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:47
c2R wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:18
MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:14 I've noticed on roundabouts built or refurbished since the mid 2000s they seem to like marking the right lane of roundabouts with an ahead arrow despite the fact the lane is obviously only meant for turning right.
It's to avoid instructing someone turning right when they hit the circulatory carriageway...
As if the big blue arrow sign and chevron signs aren't a clue! The fact it isn't even consistent makes it worse, with many roundabouts still having them.
Its some guidance that I hate.
I'd like to see statistics of how incidents have been caused by people turning right onto the circulatory carriageway because of a right arrow on the ground compared to the amount of incidents such as side swipes that have occurred due to the right hand lane having an ahead arrow but doesn't actually go ahead.

Also not all places follow this guidance, West Sussex for example strictly follows it, whilst Lincolnshire it usually isn't followed.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.12681 ... 384!8i8192 - This approach I hate the most, the number of crashes here is astonishing looking at crash map, and I'd suspect many minor side swipes go unreported. I'll let you follow the lanes around the roundabout.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.22615 ... 312!8i6656 - simply marked with right arrows in Lincolnshire, although personally I think the left two lanes should be marked with left arrows. 3rd land marked as ahead&right and 4th lane being right.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by crazyknightsfan »

stryder wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 14:24 I came across this advanced guide sign from Australia which indicates which lane a driver should go in for a roundabout to take their exit. Has any equivalent of this been used in the UK?


Capture.JPG


Would the closest equivalent be the GET IN LANE signs on the approaches to some roundabouts?
Australia doesn't always get it right. This is a fairly new (2019) interchange with a big roundabout below, and the off-ramp has this sign:
https://goo.gl/maps/Ut2uF8qZdv769SYH6

Note the conflict between the sign and the arrows on the ground, but also note the sign doesn't show which lane goes straight ahead back onto the Tonkin Highway. Newer signs (2020) don't have this error:
https://goo.gl/maps/auLXnH2dEPsZMNYy5
This sign also shows how the left turn bypass lane is signed - the arrow branches off the main trunk before the roundabout itself
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by traffic-light-man »

c2R wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 17:34Interestingly, Manchester is also where I was thinking of the gantries - the sheer amount of street furniture at Portwood will live with me until the end of my days https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4161917 ... 384!8i8192

Not to mention those lights, where the designers have clearly gone for more metal...
The similar gantry fest at Whitebirk on the M65 comes to mind, too, as well as the ones at Simister.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by Patrick Harper »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 16:49 Our refusal to properly sign roundabouts beyond a map sign is one of the reasons many of them don't work. Gantries are expensive as well, so those are an absolute last resort.
Most new drivers aren't taught how to use map signs to select lanes on approach to roundabouts either.

How many people know that this means use the right-hand lane to go 'straight on' on the A3057, for instance?
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by Bryn666 »

traffic-light-man wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 07:38
c2R wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 17:34Interestingly, Manchester is also where I was thinking of the gantries - the sheer amount of street furniture at Portwood will live with me until the end of my days https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4161917 ... 384!8i8192

Not to mention those lights, where the designers have clearly gone for more metal...
The similar gantry fest at Whitebirk on the M65 comes to mind, too, as well as the ones at Simister.
9 signal heads for one approach. LCC love to overdesign these things, pity none of this zeal makes it into their staging plans.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by Chris Bertram »

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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by M19 »

jervi wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 23:19
MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:47
c2R wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 21:18

It's to avoid instructing someone turning right when they hit the circulatory carriageway...
As if the big blue arrow sign and chevron signs aren't a clue! The fact it isn't even consistent makes it worse, with many roundabouts still having them.
Its some guidance that I hate.
I'd like to see statistics of how incidents have been caused by people turning right onto the circulatory carriageway because of a right arrow on the ground compared to the amount of incidents such as side swipes that have occurred due to the right hand lane having an ahead arrow but doesn't actually go ahead.

Also not all places follow this guidance, West Sussex for example strictly follows it, whilst Lincolnshire it usually isn't followed.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.12681 ... 384!8i8192 - This approach I hate the most, the number of crashes here is astonishing looking at crash map, and I'd suspect many minor side swipes go unreported. I'll let you follow the lanes around the roundabout.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.22615 ... 312!8i6656 - simply marked with right arrows in Lincolnshire, although personally I think the left two lanes should be marked with left arrows. 3rd land marked as ahead&right and 4th lane being right.

Well my hypothesis is that the more perpendicular than tangential entry angles we get these days onto horribly designed newer roundabouts give the hard of thinking the impression that they can bear right, let alone the issues with entry path overlap.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by AndyB »

Didn't we have it confirmed a few weeks on SABRE that the silly "no right arrows on roundabout approach" rule had gone again?

Several sites in NI now have Diag 877 signs, primarily where lane 1 is to be left only. The similar one (diag 2019) on the approach to the Seven Towers Roundabout is incorrect as lane 1 can also go left, but even though it was erected in the "no right arrows" era, failure to show a right arrow would be unthinkably confusing.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by jervi »

Patrick Harper wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 14:45
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 16:49 Our refusal to properly sign roundabouts beyond a map sign is one of the reasons many of them don't work. Gantries are expensive as well, so those are an absolute last resort.
Most new drivers aren't taught how to use map signs to select lanes on approach to roundabouts either.

How many people know that this means use the right-hand lane to go 'straight on' on the A3057, for instance?
I find it the other way round TBH. Its often older Karens on Facebook saying people are in the wrong lane, when in fact they are wrong because of the sign.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.99676 ... 384!8i8192 This one appears on Facebook once a year. A few misinformed Karens say right lane to go ahead since there are 4 exits, and its the 3rd or some illogically explanation. Although it seems people on Facebook are split 50/50 on this.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.98946 ... 384!8i8192 Or this one where people again seem to think its right lane to go ahead. I'm normally outnumbered by Karens when this one appears on Facebook. I will admit that due to the entry angle to the roundabout, it does feel more natural to go ahead from the right lane, but that doesn't make it right.
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by Fenlander »

AndyB wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 20:05 Didn't we have it confirmed a few weeks on SABRE that the silly "no right arrows on roundabout approach" rule had gone again?
The only arrow on any of the 4 approaches to this roundabout is a solitary right turn arrow
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by the cheesecake man »

Map signs such as these are sometimes used at other junctions so why not at roundabouts?
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Re: Roundabout lane guidance signing

Post by AndyB »

Fenlander wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:04
AndyB wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 20:05 Didn't we have it confirmed a few weeks on SABRE that the silly "no right arrows on roundabout approach" rule had gone again?
The only arrow on any of the 4 approaches to this roundabout is a solitary right turn arrow
That isn’t uncommon at any sort of junction - most drivers interpret it as meaning exception to the Highway Code rules for the roundabout or junction, specifically “don’t go straight on from this lane”
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