Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

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Chris5156
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Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Chris5156 »

Zebra and signalised pedestrian crossings are meant to have a "controlled zone" marked by zig zags. Before there were zig zags, the zone was marked by metal studs across the road instead.

I thought all the studs were gone, but no - there's a crossing on the A324 Amstel Way in Woking that still has them! Not a zig or a zag in sight.

I could just about understand it if this was a legacy Pelican crossing with ancient signal equipment, where nothing had been updated since the 70s. But it's a modern crossing with parallel cycle track and elephant footprint markings, so it's evidently seen some work in the recent past. I've no idea why it hasn't been marked out with zig zags in the normal way.

Are there more examples out there still?
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Chris Bertram »

Chris5156 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 20:05 Zebra and signalised pedestrian crossings are meant to have a "controlled zone" marked by zig zags. Before there were zig zags, the zone was marked by metal studs across the road instead.

I thought all the studs were gone, but no - there's a crossing on the A324 Amstel Way in Woking that still has them! Not a zig or a zag in sight.

I could just about understand it if this was a legacy Pelican crossing with ancient signal equipment, where nothing had been updated since the 70s. But it's a modern crossing with parallel cycle track and elephant footprint markings, so it's evidently seen some work in the recent past. I've no idea why it hasn't been marked out with zig zags in the normal way.

Are there more examples out there still?
In this case, there is the additional feature of RAG lights for the cycle route crossing the road, so it's not purely a ped/cycle crossing point. Maybe that's the difference?
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Bryn666 »

This toucan in Preston was the same https://goo.gl/maps/xn2cNpVmkGTb9vVj7 (the lining has now completely worn off and LCC haven't done anything about it).

I think early toucans - as the Amstel Way one looks like given the appearance of the cycle tracks either side - were exempt from the Pelican crossing regulations because they were different. It's legacy stuff, and should be fixed really.
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by M4Simon »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:00 This toucan in Preston was the same https://goo.gl/maps/xn2cNpVmkGTb9vVj7 (the lining has now completely worn off and LCC haven't done anything about it).

I think early toucans - as the Amstel Way one looks like given the appearance of the cycle tracks either side - were exempt from the Pelican crossing regulations because they were different. It's legacy stuff, and should be fixed really.
If I recall correctly, zigizags were not presecribed for use on Toucan Crossings when they were first introduced, and therefore couldn't be used. I think it was the 2002 edition of TSRGD that changed that. I vaguely remember applying for authorisation of zig-zags on a toucan crossing, probably in the late 90s. I think by that stage the Department were authorising them automatically as they knew the change to the regulations was coming.

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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Bryn666 »

M4Simon wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:50
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:00 This toucan in Preston was the same https://goo.gl/maps/xn2cNpVmkGTb9vVj7 (the lining has now completely worn off and LCC haven't done anything about it).

I think early toucans - as the Amstel Way one looks like given the appearance of the cycle tracks either side - were exempt from the Pelican crossing regulations because they were different. It's legacy stuff, and should be fixed really.
If I recall correctly, zigizags were not presecribed for use on Toucan Crossings when they were first introduced, and therefore couldn't be used. I think it was the 2002 edition of TSRGD that changed that. I vaguely remember applying for authorisation of zig-zags on a toucan crossing, probably in the late 90s. I think by that stage the Department were authorising them automatically as they knew the change to the regulations was coming.

Simon
That sounds right to me - the first toucans in Blackburn didn't appear until after 2002 anyway so I'd never really seen one before that.
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by traffic-light-man »

Chris5156 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 20:05 Are there more examples out there still?
This little set of thermoplastic ones and this full set of metal ones spring to mind, though both their respective crossings have officially long since been removed, so they don't count.

There's also this set of thermoplastic ones which has reappeared since the HFS was worn away, though of course the zig zags have long since replaced them so they don't really count either, but I thought were worthy of a mention! The opposite approach still has a few, too.
Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 07:40 In this case, there is the additional feature of RAG lights for the cycle route crossing the road, so it's not purely a ped/cycle crossing point. Maybe that's the difference?
The presence of the cycle signals there would've meant that this was not legally a crossing and therefore it shouldn't have zig zags. What's interesting is that the studs are 24mish from each stop line - does anyone know the original typical distance from the stop line for the studs? Measuring in 30mish from each set of studs lands a crossing point right between the existing pedestrian and cycle crossings, so it seems conceivable to me that there was a Pelican there prior to the existing parallel and the studs date from that.
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:00 This toucan in Preston was the same https://goo.gl/maps/xn2cNpVmkGTb9vVj7 (the lining has now completely worn off and LCC haven't done anything about it).

I think early toucans - as the Amstel Way one looks like given the appearance of the cycle tracks either side - were exempt from the Pelican crossing regulations because they were different. It's legacy stuff, and should be fixed really.
That one at Moor Park was installed in the late 90s, so the lack of zig zags aligns with what Simon mentions in his post. It was upgraded to a nearside Toucan last year, but I'm not sure if it's had zig zags applied or not - I'd hope so though, especially given the condition of the road markings in that 2020 view!
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Chris5156 »

Thank you all - the news about zig zags at Toucan crossings is new to me!
traffic-light-man wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:02
Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 07:40 In this case, there is the additional feature of RAG lights for the cycle route crossing the road, so it's not purely a ped/cycle crossing point. Maybe that's the difference?
The presence of the cycle signals there would've meant that this was not legally a crossing and therefore it shouldn't have zig zags. What's interesting is that the studs are 24mish from each stop line - does anyone know the original typical distance from the stop line for the studs? Measuring in 30mish from each set of studs lands a crossing point right between the existing pedestrian and cycle crossings, so it seems conceivable to me that there was a Pelican there prior to the existing parallel and the studs date from that.
Brilliant detective work and exactly what I come to SABRE for :bow:
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by PhilC »

traffic-light-man wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:02 What's interesting is that the studs are 24mish from each stop line - does anyone know the original typical distance from the stop line for the studs? Measuring in 30mish from each set of studs lands a crossing point right between the existing pedestrian and cycle crossings, so it seems conceivable to me that there was a Pelican there prior to the existing parallel and the studs date from that.
I think the distance varied according to the speed limit. Somewhere at the back of mind I seem to recall 15 yards if the speed limit was 30mph or less and 25 yards if the speed limit was 40mph or higher. I used to collect I-Spy books as a child, so I may have read it in one of those. In those days the only restriction was on parking between the studs and the crossing, on the approach side only. Overtaking, although the Highway Code advised against it, was not legally prohibited.
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Jonathan24 »

They are still very common in Northern Ireland. This crossing was resurfaced a couple of years ago and the studs were replaced as part of that process:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.579693, ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by AndyB »

Jonathan, it’s not the studs forming the crossing itself. Before zig zags were added to light-controlled pedestrian crossings, the controlled zone was marked by two lines of studs on the approach lanes a few inches apart. The studs were closer to the crossing than the start of the zig zags.
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by Jonathan24 »

AndyB wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 13:26 Jonathan, it’s not the studs forming the crossing itself. Before zig zags were added to light-controlled pedestrian crossings, the controlled zone was marked by two lines of studs on the approach lanes a few inches apart. The studs were closer to the crossing than the start of the zig zags.
Ah, apologies, I misunderstood - I don't think I've ever seen that before but I guess maybe that is why it was changed, given they don't seem to be that visible.
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Re: Crossing controlled zone marked by metal studs

Post by PhilC »

I just found the following on page 31 of the 1965 edition of the Highway Code.

"YOU MUST NOT
Stop your vehicle on the approach side of a pedestrian crossing beyond the double line of studs in the road (which are usually 15 yards from the crossing) except to give precedence to a pedestrian on the crossing, or in circumstances beyond your control, or when necessary to avoid an accident."

There's a scan here http://www.45worlds.com/book/title/nc920491uk

Probably one of the most famous photos of a pedestrian crossing, on the Beatles Abbey Road album cover, shows a BMC J4 van parked just before the row of studs. The last couple of studs are visible behind Ringo's head. The Volkswagen, on the opposite side of the road is quite legally parked.
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