The Thing I Hate About Bradford Is... Traffic Signals.

[OliverH]

Here is a thread to talk about traffic signals in Bradford.

Take this junction and neighbouring junctions and crossings. First, they were Mellors them modified with peek elites, then replaced with visolouge (spelling might be wrong) LED heads, then-new peek LED heads then again with the newer peek heads with square surround.

Link coming later.

and talk about not liking the Mellors and replacing almost every set of LED microsence with new heads.
If there are any other examples, post here.

[WhiteBlueRed]

What's wrong with LED traffic signals? Personally I like them as long as they have shades/visors, otherwise they are hard to see in bright sunlight and just generally look ugly. (cough my town cough)
LEDs are better than halogen or incandescent lights, because they use a lot less electricity, and they're more safer, because one LED can go out at a time without the whole light going out, whereas a lightbulb would simply go out.

[Chris Bertram]

Is now a good time to mention span-wire?

https://goo.gl/maps/hoehVP477cHYZ6BD7

[OliverH]

Even some that were installed a few years ago have been replaced. this could be because the council believes that having new signals will improve traffic.

[OliverH]

Here is a thread to talk about traffic signals in Bradford.

Take this junction and neighbouring junctions and crossings. First, they were Mellors them modified with peek elites, then replaced with visolouge (spelling might be wrong) LED heads, then-new peek LED heads then again with the newer peek heads with square surround.

Link coming later.

and talk about not liking the Mellors and replacing almost every set of LED microsence with new heads.
If there are any other examples, post here.

link: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7992526 ... a=!3m1!1e3

[L.J.D]

I imagine in Bradford it's a nightmare finding parts for the Microsense LSH heads given how they wasn't manufactured that long as they quickly moved over to the 3G head. Bradford installed tons of LSH heads. In fact I remember because Bradford was the first place I ever saw LED signal heads in my life as at the time they weren't very common at all. I was amazed by how cool they looked but nowadays the LEDs look bog standard as most are just clusters behind coloured lenses.

[traffic-light-man]

One thing to remember is that LED and controller technology has progressed and changed fairly rapidly within a short timeframe, and none of it is as straight forward as every signal head using the same type of 50w 12v halogen lamp as with the old halogen sites, which is likely the source of a lot of these changes.

The LSH heads were in production for a surprisingly long time, and the aspects actually pre-dated the modular heads. I think the principle issue was the lack of up-take from the majority of authorities, so they only saw serious use in a few areas. Like L.J.D has mentioned, Bradford was one of those. North Wales was another, particularly the Conwy County Borough Council and the Denbighshire County Council areas. Also like Bradford, most of the LSH heads in North Wales have subsequently been replaced with Telent 4G heads.

The spares will of course now be an issue for the LSH heads, but the LSH heads were also not ELV and the components will likely be approaching the end of their life now anyway, so the likelihood is that they would simply be replaced along with a controller upgrade.

The Visilogue kit is also in a similar boat. It's obsolete technology by a defunct manufacturer, so the support available for that equipment will most likely be to replace it with something current - it's the most straight forward and long-term cost effective solution.

link

The backing boards or borders being replaced isn't necessarily a sign that the rest of the equipment has been replaced, though. If you take a look on GSV at the casually-replaced high level head on the 6m pole, it remains as a Motus Ultra after the new borders have been fitted, which suggests to me that it was just the old style backing boards being replaced with the new borders for whatever reason. I think if you were replacing all the heads, you'd definitely want to change the odd one out while you were at it.

[MotorwayGuy]

Is now a good time to mention span-wire?

https://goo.gl/maps/hoehVP477cHYZ6BD7

That seems like a very poor road design which they've tried to mitigate with the overhead signals. Why didn't they keep the central divider that was previously there and places poles there is stupid and the situation is made worse with seperate signals a few yards away in both directions without louvres.

There's a similar problemhere, where even though it's only marked as a S2 it gets used as an S4 when traffic backs up. For some reason the Mellor on the mast arm was never replaced and is now very dim, which has caused at least two separate accidents I'm aware of where vehicles in the offside lanes have hit pedestrians because the signals were obscured by queuing traffic in both directions.

[Gareth]

I don't see anything wrong with using mast arms in such situations. In fact, it should be more common on wide roads. That said, the first example really does need an island. Looks like five lanes of traffic pedestrians are expected to cross. I think anything over four should really have a traffic island in most instances.

[MotorwayGuy]

For some reason, mast arms seem to be being removed when installations are replaced now, such as here, here and here (the latter crossing has since been removed).

[traffic-light-man]

Here's a similar five-lane crossing, but featuring mast arms instead of span wires.

Mast arms are a maintenance burden, usually require more drastic traffic management to maintain and they cost more to install, hence if they can be avoided or removed, they often will be. In certain situations where you would now expect a high-level signal head on a tall pole, the previous method was to use a mast arm, principally because this was all the regulations allowed for.

I'm not arguing against mast arms, I personally would like to see more of them in certain situations in place of the tall pole fad, but I'd also like to see them re-engineered to be less imposing. I always liked the TfL ones MotorwayGuy has linked to there, they're much less imposing the the current offerings, being more like a chunky street lighting column.

[jnty]

Here's a similar five-lane crossing, but featuring mast arms instead of span wires.

Mast arms are a maintenance burden, usually require more drastic traffic management to maintain and they cost more to install, hence if they can be avoided or removed, they often will be. In certain situations where you would now expect a high-level signal head on a tall pole, the previous method was to use a mast arm, principally because this was all the regulations allowed for.

I'm not arguing against mast arms, I personally would like to see more of them in certain situations in place of the tall pole fad, but I'd also like to see them re-engineered to be less imposing. I always liked the TfL ones MotorwayGuy has linked to there, they're much less imposing the the current offerings, being more like a chunky street lighting column.

Interesting note on a nearby sign - problem with red light runners? It doesn't seem like an unusual layout.

[Gareth]

Here's a similar five-lane crossing, but featuring mast arms instead of span wires.

Mast arms are a maintenance burden, usually require more drastic traffic management to maintain and they cost more to install, hence if they can be avoided or removed, they often will be. In certain situations where you would now expect a high-level signal head on a tall pole, the previous method was to use a mast arm, principally because this was all the regulations allowed for.

I'm not arguing against mast arms, I personally would like to see more of them in certain situations in place of the tall pole fad, but I'd also like to see them re-engineered to be less imposing. I always liked the TfL ones MotorwayGuy has linked to there, they're much less imposing the the current offerings, being more like a chunky street lighting column.

But then the question surely is: why is much of the rest of the world happy to install them, often routinely? The anti-mast arm thing is almost uniquely a British hang up, like not using red and amber arrows or audible devices unless all pedestrian crossings at the location share the same stage.

It's not that I'm saying most locations need them. In most of our towns, the road layout is more often than not sufficiently narrow enough to not need them. I agree with you about the designs. They tend to be ugly in this country (although most contemporary UK Street furniture is, sadly). They are also too frequently not designed to accommodate standard height signals or push buttons, meaning a standard height pole has to be erected next to them, which adds unnecessary clutter. But these things need not necessarily be the case and I would prefer a single mast arm to a forest of totems, which is getting increasingly common, arguably more ugly and can't really be that much less of a maintenance burden.

[Chris Bertram]

How the French do it - minimising street clutter by having three signals on a single pole - the regulation-height primary signal, an overhead signal on a mast-arm and the eye-level repeater for the first in the queue. No far-side secondary, of course.

[Bryn666]

Here's a similar five-lane crossing, but featuring mast arms instead of span wires.

Mast arms are a maintenance burden, usually require more drastic traffic management to maintain and they cost more to install, hence if they can be avoided or removed, they often will be. In certain situations where you would now expect a high-level signal head on a tall pole, the previous method was to use a mast arm, principally because this was all the regulations allowed for.

I'm not arguing against mast arms, I personally would like to see more of them in certain situations in place of the tall pole fad, but I'd also like to see them re-engineered to be less imposing. I always liked the TfL ones MotorwayGuy has linked to there, they're much less imposing the the current offerings, being more like a chunky street lighting column.

But then the question surely is: why is much of the rest of the world happy to install them, often routinely? The anti-mast arm thing is almost uniquely a British hang up, like not using red and amber arrows or audible devices unless all pedestrian crossings at the location share the same stage.

It's not that I'm saying most locations need them. In most of our towns, the road layout is more often than not sufficiently narrow enough to not need them. I agree with you about the designs. They tend to be ugly in this country (although most contemporary UK Street furniture is, sadly). They are also too frequently not designed to accommodate standard height signals or push buttons, meaning a standard height pole has to be erected next to them, which adds unnecessary clutter. But these things need not necessarily be the case and I would prefer a single mast arm to a forest of totems, which is getting increasingly common, arguably more ugly and can't really be that much less of a maintenance burden.

Classic British overdesign of simple features to do nothing but inflate cost and make maintenance harder, that's why. Compare and contrast with what they use in mainland Europe:

France: https://goo.gl/maps/JF6tYSz2RehZ5mAY7
Belgium: https://goo.gl/maps/XkNbAqFSMaSiu9nn7 (old style), https://goo.gl/maps/Z1aoK9rHxDD3kq458 (new style)
Netherlands: https://goo.gl/maps/BLr8Dgzk3Ekf3Q6TA
Spain: https://goo.gl/maps/vHN77rRAvWUfp8hw7
Italy: https://goo.gl/maps/Nkp4tYUzTEmk7hHq9

etc, etc...