concrete lamposts!

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patrick
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concrete lamposts!

Post by patrick »

Has anyone else noticed how dangerous some lamposts are which are made out of concrete? There seems to be bits falling off everywhere! I think they may be past their best! How about a sabre competition for the pic of the lampost in worst condition? Bit of a different idea!!
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Post by A68Nick »

One of the classics we had was the binmen reversing out of a cul-de-sac and backing straight into a concrete lamp-post. The lamp-post keeled over and shattered allover the garden of the house behind the lamp-post.

Certainly that I don't think that concrete streetlights are the way forward for that very reason. I would be interested in the result of a high-speed collision with a concrete lamp-post. Would it just shatter and cause less damage than a steel-streetlight? Or would the flying shards be a serious hazard?

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Nick
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Post by ScotsSteveA6105 »

Nicholas Allan: <<Certainly that I don't think that concrete streetlights are the way forward for that very reason. I would be interested in the result of a high-speed collision with a concrete lamp-post. Would it just shatter and cause less damage than a steel-streetlight? Or would the flying shards be a serious hazard?>>

I'm going back a while, to 1986, but I can remember a concrete street-light in Sunderland, which snapped in two, after a car ran high-speed into it. The base remained in the ground, at a 45-degree angle, while the post and bracket snapped off and were found on the grass nearby. Fortunately there was no serious injury to the car's occupant.

However, there are fears over the safety of concrete posts - and brackets - due to spalling, and this has seen the sleeving of many concrete columns in Edinburgh and the replacement of others. I'm sure there was a fatal accident in Gateshead some years ago now involving a concrete lamppost, which has led to the decision of many authorities to replace these columns.
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Post by Chris5156 »

On a very slight tangent, the Leeds Weekly News (nasty free advert-filled paper) ran a front page headline story the other week, which I kept, about Leeds City Council's underfunding with regard to streetlighting. This also follows on from the thread on poor council funding recently.

The article states LCC is considering letting a ?90m PFI contract to maintain its streetlights because it can't afford to do it any more (this is, of course, because it has repeatedly cut the budgets and now can't afford to catch up).

The article mentions (here's where we get on topic again) that:
- There are 93,876 streetlights. 8,078 illuminated signs, 4,750 bollards and 179 'beacons' (what are they?) in LCC's patch.
- 26,815 of those streetlights are providing "inadequate" lighting.
- Most of those are providing inadequate lighting in high crime areas.
- 48,317 streetlights are over 30 years old and have passed their design life.
And here's the real shocker:
- 80% of all Leeds's streetlights need to be replaced by 2011 at the latest.

I fear that this is representative of the nation as a whole!

LCC are, for the record, no longer installing concrete posts as far as I can tell, but also don't seem in any real hurry to get rid of the old ones.

Chris
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Tom
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Post by Tom »

[[179 'beacons' (what are they?)]]

Belisha beacons, I should imagine. Though it's strange that there's an odd number -- mind you I think you can have three on a crossing if there's a central refuge.
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Post by c2R »

<<Belisha beacons, I should imagine. Though it's strange that there's an odd number -- >>

Maybe a LA boundary runs down the middle of a road ;o)

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Post by BobSykes »

<I would be interested in the result of a high-speed collision with a concrete lamp-post.>

I would have thought your typical concrete lamppost, particularly the really old thick ones found on major roads (as opposed to the commonplace residential street thinner ones), would prove to be quite an immovable force in a collision, and probably more deadly. Of all the car/lamppost collisions I have witnessed over the years, I have seen concrete lampposts totally unaffected whilst the front of the car is nicely wrapped round the base, but metal poles bent at 45 degrees or snapped in two. Keen streetlight observers will note that on a stretch of concrete-lit road, you see very few newer replacement columns, whilst on steel-lit roads, you see replacement poles left right and centre.
On the subject of lampposts and accidents, I'vewondered for years why local authorities site columns in such accident-likely locations - eg, outside of a bend rather than the inside. Typically, on a left hand bend in this country, the columns will be on the right hand side of the road; on a right hander, the left hand side - so any car not making the bend is more likely to hit a column than if the columns were on the same side as a bend. Given that local authorities presumably recover the costs of replacing columns from the errant motorist's insurers (or their own insurers), how much lower would everyone's car insurance premiums be if we had a change of policy regarding the siting of lampposts?
<How about a sabre competition for the pic of the lampost in worst condition?>
I'd suggest looking in Blackburn, Leeds or Manchester for starters. In fact, didn't Bryn post some pics of theconcrete lights in Guide Square, Blackburnrecently?
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Post by Bryn666 »

Sadly, most of the concrete columns in Blackburn are being replaced.
The A666 S of the town, Orbital Route, town centre and A679 are all losing their columns this year.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by deadendwaterfall »

Sorry to bring up a very, very old topic but I would like to add my thoughts about concrete lamp posts.

I'm from Scunthorpe, and i've noticed on some roads, the whole lot of concrete lamp posts have been replaced with metal lamp posts with new LED lights on them, whereas on some other roads, there may just be one concrete lamp post replaced with a new metal one with an LED light. There have been some concrete lamp posts which have never been 'sleeved' and if it needs a new light, the policy is to replace the entire lamp post rather than just 'sleeve' the existing one.

Any that are sleeved and need a new light are also totally replaced too.

I'm glad to finally see them disappear, the quicker they are phased out, the better I think.

I've just recently reported one that has a large corroded patch on it, and with luck, it'll be replaced with a shiny new metal lamp post/LED light combination soon.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Repmobile »

For the last couple of years, North Yorkshire County Council, as the highways authority for North Yorkshire have been going round all the remaining concrete lamp posts in the county every year and testing them for their strength.

They tie a strop round the lamp post and tie the other end to a forklift type truck and the forklift then pulls away from the lampost and they measure how much 'give' there is in the lamp post. All bar one concrete post in our village have now been replaced by metal ones and typically the last concrete one is right outside of my house. Why they just didn't change this one when the contractors changed the others god knows, but it must keep passing the 'strength test'. Then there are also some more street lamps stuck onto what look like wooden 'telegraph posts', however they are not actually telegraph posts, but wooden posts that carry the overhead 240v electricity lines in the village. Every year these posts get inspected by National Grid!

I suppose it keeps a few people gainfully employed going round checking all the concrete and wooden lamp posts in England's biggest county every year, but I am sure if we weren't in 'austerity' then all would have been changed by now.

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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by kit »

Repmobile wrote:Then there are also some more street lamps stuck onto what look like wooden 'telegraph posts', however they are not actually telegraph posts, but wooden posts that carry the overhead 240v electricity lines in the village. Every year these posts get inspected by National Grid!
I was going to ask for any spare concrete columns to be sent to us, my village is almost entirely lit by lanterns mounted on National Grid wooden poles and I've always thought it looks very tacky. Then I saw that streetlight columns cost £2,500 a piece and realised why they piggyback on NG infrastructure!
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by KeithW »

kit wrote: I was going to ask for any spare concrete columns to be sent to us, my village is almost entirely lit by lanterns mounted on National Grid wooden poles and I've always thought it looks very tacky. Then I saw that streetlight columns cost £2,500 a piece and realised why they piggyback on NG infrastructure!
I think that that would be the total cost of installation rather than the price of the column. Looking at their website Wydels sell 8 Metre Galvanized Root Mounted columns for £337.60 inc. VAT
or
8 Metre Galvanised Flange Plate columns for £439.20 inc. VAT
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Bryn666 »

Yes, 2.5k will cover the cost of the installation, materials, and connection to the DNO equipment (in layman speak the mains supply).

Galvanised columns are fugly though in urban areas. Much prefer them to be treated (preferably black).
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by nick_dunn »

One of my earliest recollections as a very small child in around 1965 is being sat in our parked NSU Prinz with my mother, a few feet from a concrete lamp post. With no warning at all, the top half suddenly cracked then smashed down into the road just in front of the car. If it had come down on the car with us in it..... well I dread to think. I presume it must have had some previous damage to just collapse like it did.

Just checked on GSV and I reckon it might have been this one as that is about where I remember it. There are some other replacement heads in the street but this one is longer as if it runs from the original breakage I witnessed.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by A303Paul »

Bryn666 wrote:Yes, 2.5k will cover the cost of the installation, materials, and connection to the DNO equipment (in layman speak the mains supply).

Galvanised columns are fugly though in urban areas. Much prefer them to be treated (preferably black).
I suspect the biggest chunk of those costs is the DNO works.

My local council has got round this by getting Hardie Street Lighting to fabricate bespoke columns with much bigger than usual and in some cases octagonal base sections.

They then chop the concrete lamppost to waist height and plonk the new one over it then wire the light into the termination in the old post.

Did anyone ever establish whether concrete was banned when its use ceased abruptly in the 90s, even for spot replacements?
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Glenn A »

I notice the ones on the B5295 in Whitehaven have recently been sleeved with LED lanterns, which would assume these lights are going to be around for a long time. However, it was a shame in Workington to see the sixties vintage concrete lampposts with their original lanterns being culled in the late noughties/
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by sotonsteve »

Concrete lighting columns weren't banned, but they did not feature in the specification for highway works documents that councils use as guidance. As such, they effectively no longer became considered, and the drop in demand meant the supply chain ceased production.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Bryn666 »

A303Paul wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:Yes, 2.5k will cover the cost of the installation, materials, and connection to the DNO equipment (in layman speak the mains supply).

Galvanised columns are fugly though in urban areas. Much prefer them to be treated (preferably black).
I suspect the biggest chunk of those costs is the DNO works.

My local council has got round this by getting Hardie Street Lighting to fabricate bespoke columns with much bigger than usual and in some cases octagonal base sections.

They then chop the concrete lamppost to waist height and plonk the new one over it then wire the light into the termination in the old post.

Did anyone ever establish whether concrete was banned when its use ceased abruptly in the 90s, even for spot replacements?
Also known as a "Tameside Slipper" - see here;
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/slipper
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by A303Paul »

Bryn666 wrote:
A303Paul wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:Yes, 2.5k will cover the cost of the installation, materials, and connection to the DNO equipment (in layman speak the mains supply).

Galvanised columns are fugly though in urban areas. Much prefer them to be treated (preferably black).
I suspect the biggest chunk of those costs is the DNO works.

My local council has got round this by getting Hardie Street Lighting to fabricate bespoke columns with much bigger than usual and in some cases octagonal base sections.

They then chop the concrete lamppost to waist height and plonk the new one over it then wire the light into the termination in the old post.

Did anyone ever establish whether concrete was banned when its use ceased abruptly in the 90s, even for spot replacements?
Also known as a "Tameside Slipper" - see here;
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/slipper
I wonder if they are another Hardie client?
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Bryn666 »

I think Hardie have purchased the rights to use it, it was invented in Tameside.
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