concrete lamposts!

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RJDG14
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RJDG14 »

There are still a handful of unsleeved lights in the Grange Park, Toothill and Freshbrook areas of Swindon, although the fact that some of these have broken in recent months suggest that they won't be there for much longer. A lot of other residential areas built between 1900 and 1980 in the town have sleeved concrete lamposts, although the council is phasing them out. There's one in Swindon in some abandoned yard area (it's still there as of the 19th of July 2016). Does anyone know when it probably dates from? I'd have said the 1950s - 1970s?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.55469 ... 6656?hl=en

I believe there were some in Oldfield Park in Bath in the early 2000s, although these have since been replaced. They were still modaretely common then.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by KeithW »

kit wrote:
Trainfan wrote:There's an interesting item on one of these "How it's made" type progams, showing concrete column being centrifugally cast whilst also being pre-stressed. From my experience of modern cements used in such a configuration I would be surprised if structural failure was an issue theses days. The same goes for corrosion issues.
I think it's a prestige thing nowadays. When councils install street lighting they want it to be shiny and new. Never mind that within a few years it ends up bland and aethetetically questionable like most modern lighting.
The major issue with concrete posts is their behaviour in case of even low speed collisions. They are either the old style reinforced designs which are potentially lethal to anyone in a vehicle that hits them or the newer slim design which snap off at the base which brings the whole lantern assembly down, often on the roof of the vehicle involved. There are now safer frangible posts which are designed to basically disintegrate in a collision and are lighter than either steel or concrete but I believe the price is relatively high so they tend to be installed only on high speed roads.

As an aside a study by Starks and Miller in Australia looked at the serious injuries and fatal accidents on highways during collisions and came up with the following Damage Index for collisions with road side objects, higher number = more damage

Type of Object Struck Damage Index
Tree 21
Lighting Columns 21
Telegraph Pole 12
Traffic Sign 5
Wall 4

Frangible posts come in at around 10 as I recall.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RichardA626 »

KeithW wrote:
kit wrote:
Trainfan wrote:There's an interesting item on one of these "How it's made" type progams, showing concrete column being centrifugally cast whilst also being pre-stressed. From my experience of modern cements used in such a configuration I would be surprised if structural failure was an issue theses days. The same goes for corrosion issues.
I think it's a prestige thing nowadays. When councils install street lighting they want it to be shiny and new. Never mind that within a few years it ends up bland and aethetetically questionable like most modern lighting.
The major issue with concrete posts is their behaviour in case of even low speed collisions. They are either the old style reinforced designs which are potentially lethal to anyone in a vehicle that hits them or the newer slim design which snap off at the base which brings the whole lantern assembly down, often on the roof of the vehicle involved. There are now safer frangible posts which are designed to basically disintegrate in a collision and are lighter than either steel or concrete but I believe the price is relatively high so they tend to be installed only on high speed roads.

As an aside a study by Starks and Miller in Australia looked at the serious injuries and fatal accidents on highways during collisions and came up with the following Damage Index for collisions with road side objects, higher number = more damage

Type of Object Struck Damage Index
Tree 21
Lighting Columns 21
Telegraph Pole 12
Traffic Sign 5
Wall 4

Frangible posts come in at around 10 as I recall.
I've heard one of the reasons concrete isn't used for lampposts was due to them breaking & falling onto cars in accidents.

I was wondering if any artificial materials had been considered for lampposts.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Chris5156 »

I drove along West Park in Mottingham this morning, which is home to a number of these bizarre angled concrete lights. They have crossbars, presumably as an ornamental addition to make it look like a lamplighter once climbed a ladder to reach a gas lantern. Quite a strange mix of archaic ornament and striking modernism.

The casual replacements on that road are all brown-painted metal columns about twice the height with no outreach arms at all, so it's a bit of an odd mismatch along there.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Gram587 »

Chris5156 wrote:I drove along West Park in Mottingham this morning, which is home to a number of these bizarre angled concrete lights. They have crossbars, presumably as an ornamental addition to make it look like a lamplighter once climbed a ladder to reach a gas lantern. Quite a strange mix of archaic ornament and striking modernism.

The casual replacements on that road are all brown-painted metal columns about twice the height with no outreach arms at all, so it's a bit of an odd mismatch along there.
Those are great installations, am really pleased to see them still going strong! Those columns date back to the 1950s and the crossbars would have had a genuine purpose back then as when they came to change the bulb they would have probably just used a workman with a ladder! Tbh those columns are really quite inadequate for a road that wide and treelined as well but because they're so old and quirky I hope they survive a lot longer!
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by MotorwayGuy »

Greenwich borough used to be full of them about 10 years ago, but most have gone now.
IMG_3647s.jpg
...and now.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by cmjones01 »

Apologies for the non-UK nature of this post, but I thought some people might be interested in some of the lampposts I've seen over here in Poland. There have clearly been a lot of concrete posts here, but many of them are now in shocking condition. Most of them on major roads have now been replaced, some near where I live with lovely sleek curved aluminium posts, but there are plenty of survivors.

Here's a fairly typical example. The fairly harsh climate (-15C is normal in Winter, +35C common in summer) hasn't done it any favours, perhaps.
IMG_20160728_104414s.jpg
Note the little white 'BOR' sticker sealing the steel door. Those appeared a couple of years ago when President Obama came to visit. BOR is 'Biuro Ochrona Rządu', the Office for the Protection of the Government. Presumably they'd checked to see that nobody had planted anything nasty in the base of the post, though the gaping hole to the side doesn't help the credibility of the seal.

Of course, the major advantage of concrete posts is that you can re-point them!
IMG_20160728_104516s.jpg
though this one could do with a bit of help higher up:
IMG_20160728_104420.jpg
The round wire brackets are for holding flags on celebratory days, and they may also have the convenient side effect of holding the post together...

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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RJDG14 »

StrettonConcrete.JPG
There are still a reasonable number of unsleeved lights around Church Stretton (from the 1970s?). They're mixed in among curved metal lamposts that look like they date from the 1990s - obviously the South Shropshire policy is to replace one when it breaks. The main street has LEDs but until fairly recently (on Street View from 2009) it had the mix that the rest of the town has. Other villages and towns nearby also have concrete posts. I suspect that they're still commonplace in rural areas - just not in large towns/cities.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RJDG14 »

Probably a rare sight, I present a concrete LED in Ludlow!
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Chris5156 »

I've recently found several unadopted roads near me. The obligations of the local authority are far fewer on an unadopted road, and sure enough they don't have sealed surfaces and don't look much like the average street in a London Borough.

The council do provide street lighting, but the columns are very well spaced and, unlike elsewhere in the Borough, don't seem to have ever been renewed - rather they get casual replacements if something is damaged and otherwise the street is left to become a museum of assorted old street furniture that has long since been cleared away elsewhere.

Among a collection of other 80s and 90s bits and pieces is this handsome chap, with what looks like an original mercury lantern and in very good condition. If you click up and down the street there's some other miscellaneous (but much newer) concrete too.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by brummie_rob »

RJDG14 wrote:Probably a rare sight, I present a concrete LED in Ludlow!
Solihull Council have tons of LED concrete posts, they basically sleeved some at the top and others just replaced the MBFU head for an LED one. They look pretty cool especially as it means there is no plan to replace the concrete for presumably decades to come. Some of the concrete dates back to the 50s!
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by MotorwayGuy »

Chris5156 wrote:I've recently found several unadopted roads near me. The obligations of the local authority are far fewer on an unadopted road, and sure enough they don't have sealed surfaces and don't look much like the average street in a London Borough.

The council do provide street lighting, but the columns are very well spaced and, unlike elsewhere in the Borough, don't seem to have ever been renewed - rather they get casual replacements if something is damaged and otherwise the street is left to become a museum of assorted old street furniture that has long since been cleared away elsewhere.

Among a collection of other 80s and 90s bits and pieces is this handsome chap, with what looks like an original mercury lantern and in very good condition. If you click up and down the street there's some other miscellaneous (but much newer) concrete too.
I just knew that was going to be in Bromley before I even clicked - they seem to have a lot more unadopted roads than most London boroughs (which aren't just back alleys to nowhere).

As for LED lanterns on concrete columns, Havering seem to have retrofitted LED lanterns onto existing columns on both main roads and side streets, including concrete columns.

It seems that some councils are replacing every lantern with new LED ones, whereas some are only using them on new columns and some like Bexley are still using SON/SOX for casual replacements and only doing whole streets in LED when all the columns are replaced or referbished. Bromely have replaced lanterns on some existing columns but continue to replace like for like elsewhere.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Glenn A »

Whitehaven still has plenty of concrete standards on the A5094, B5295 and the B5345. These were installed in the late fifties/ early sixties, the original lanterns were replaced in the early eighties when the town decided to go orange, and are now sleeved with LED lanterns. Of more annoyance to me, the council is currently removing some of the surviving thirties iron and replacing it with bland LED columns, when surely fitting LED lanterns to these fine lights would be cheaper.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RJDG14 »

Chris5156 wrote:I've recently found several unadopted roads near me. The obligations of the local authority are far fewer on an unadopted road, and sure enough they don't have sealed surfaces and don't look much like the average street in a London Borough.

The council do provide street lighting, but the columns are very well spaced and, unlike elsewhere in the Borough, don't seem to have ever been renewed - rather they get casual replacements if something is damaged and otherwise the street is left to become a museum of assorted old street furniture that has long since been cleared away elsewhere.

Among a collection of other 80s and 90s bits and pieces is this handsome chap, with what looks like an original mercury lantern and in very good condition. If you click up and down the street there's some other miscellaneous (but much newer) concrete too.
The Street View imagery dates from 2008 (over 8 years ago). The lantern may still be there, but there's a high chance that it's been removed in the interim.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RJDG14 »

Here's a rather eerie photo I got of an old one in Swindon (note the way the lantern overhangs). It doesn't appear to be working at present. I think it's in a small van depot area.
AbandonedConcrete.JPG
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Truvelo »

Looks like a Concrete Utilities column and I would say it's definitely in private ownership hence why it's still there.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

Found these two old un's in a depot to the side of the A565 near Southport

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.66362 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by Nuke »

kit wrote:I was going to ask for any spare concrete columns to be sent to us, my village is almost entirely lit by lanterns mounted on National Grid wooden poles and I've always thought it looks very tacky.
Depending on how rural your village is (some "villages" are more like detached chunks of North London) I would have thought that timber poles were most appropriate. Especially if they serve as electrical distribution poles as well because they are not going to go away even if the street lighting is moved to separate posts; all you will have achieved is more street clutter.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by kit »

Nuke wrote:Depending on how rural your village is (some "villages" are more like detached chunks of North London) I would have thought that timber poles were most appropriate. Especially if they serve as electrical distribution poles as well because they are not going to go away even if the street lighting is moved to separate posts; all you will have achieved is more street clutter.
The problem with the telegraph poles is that they are clustered together so aren't a suitable spacing for street lighting (there are 30 repeaters so presumably more than 200yds) and many are set 6-7 metres back from the road so they end up just lighting the ditch instead.

IMO it is better to provide no lighting than inadequate lighting but I suspect they are there due to resident pressure so the inevitable "minimum possible to shut people up" job was done.
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Re: concrete lamposts!

Post by RJDG14 »

Assuming the road through your village is publically owned, the only way to get lamposts installed legally would be to request the council, and I very much doubt they'll grant permission for you to install old concrete columns.
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