Towns changing names

[M4Simon]

As an aside, if, someone from, for example, Stevenage, says that something is in "Welwyn" or "they are going to Welwyn" tomorrow, they usually actually mean Welwyn Garden City. The (smaller) town of Welwyn itself tends to be referred to as "Old Welwyn".

As an aside, if, someone from, for example, Stevenage, says that something is in "Welwyn" or "they are going to Welwyn" tomorrow, they usually actually mean Welwyn Garden City. The (smaller) town of Welwyn itself tends to be referred to as "Old Welwyn".

Welwyn is increasingly known (by people outside the village) as Old Welwyn, but most residents of the village nearly always talk about Welwyn (or The Village). The town across the motorway which people from Stevenage might call Welwyn, is variously known as Welwyn Garden City, Welwyn Garden, The Garden City (haven't heard that one for some time) or, when writing in a hurry, WGC.

[KeithW]

This was what I meant when I said I was surprised Kaliningrad had retained its name throughout. He was associated with Stalin's regime and therefore the town would have been a candidate for renaming after 1953, and again after the fall of Communism since he appears (from his WP entry) to simply have been a Soviet functionary/leader, and not a national hero like Zhukov.

Mikhail Kalinin was not a Stalinist. He was one of the early Bolsheviks but seen as a moderate as he advocated cooperation with non Bolshevik elements after the first revolution in 1917, remember there were two that year, the first overthrew the Tsar and the second kicked out the Social Democrats.

After the revolution Kalinin initially supported Stalin to replace Lenin but was never active in the Stalinist government and basically was retained as a figurehead. In practise he rarely left his Dacha and kept his head down. He was used by Stalin as a front man. To assure his cooperation his wife was sent to a camp basically acting as a hostage for his behaviour and he was constantly watched by the secret police. He died in 1946 at which time he was regarded as something of an elder statesman who had managed to keep his hands clean and avoid being sent to the camps or worse. Considering that the other old Bolsheviks either became part of Stalin's regime or were executed that was quite an achievement.

As to why the city was not renamed it is useful to read what Khruschev said of him.

I don't know what practical work Kalinin carried out under Lenin. But under Stalin he was the nominal signatory of all decrees, while in reality he rarely took part in government business. Sometimes he was made a member of a commission, but people didn't take his opinion into account very much. It was embarrassing for us to see this; one simply felt sorry for Mikhail Ivanovich

[Halmyre]

Damhead became Glenfarg with the arrival of the railway.

Windermere has a complicated history - the part on the lake shore is Bowness-on-Windermere. The rest of it was at one time Birthwaite, becoming Windermere with the arrival of the railway (these railways have a lot to answer for).

Not a town, but at one time there was a farm in the Borders called Clartyhole (clarty = dirty or muddy). Sir Walter Scott, seeking a country residence, built a grand house on the site and decided Abbotsford was a more genteel name.

[Richard_Fairhurst]

Belton was renamed Belton-in-Rutland in 1982 to distinguish the village from the other Belton in Leicestershire. Now it is back in Rutland (or maybe Rutland is back) it is a bit redundant.

Braunston, near Oakham, became Braunston-in-Rutland mostly because emergency services were ending up at Braunstone (Leicester).

[Reading]

REading is Redding on an old map in the Museum and Earley station (1 stop down the Waterloo line from Reading) in next to Erlegh but previously known as Little Hungerford (owing to the woods next to it having been owned by an Earl of Hungerford and called Little Hungerford plantation) which is still the name of this Electricity Substation just East of the A329 adjacent to it - https://goo.gl/maps/MJooM48d1JE2

[Chris Bertram]

REading is Redding on an old map in the Museum and Earley station (1 stop down the Waterloo line from Reading) in next to Erleigh but previously known as Little Hungerford (owing to the woods next to it having been owned by an Earl of Hungerford and called Little Hungerford plantation) which is still the name of this Electricity Substation just East of the A329 adjacent to it - https://goo.gl/maps/MJooM48d1JE2

I think we've covered changes in spelling earlier. Whittlesey in Cambridgeshire has a railway station called "Whittlesea", remembering an earlier spelling. And there are hundreds of other examples.

But it's not always *adding* elements to placenames. Sometimes elements disappear. The Metropolitan Line has a station called Chalfont and Latimer. The Chalfont element covers a number of villages with that name in the valley of the River Misbourne, some with different dedications to the saints of the parish churches. But the Latimer part refers to a village once called "Isenhampstead Latimer", with "Latimer" being what is termed a "manorial affix", naming the family that formerly owned the manor. Nearby is the village of Chenies, which was also once "Isenhampstead Chenies". In both cases, the substantive part of the name has fallen out of use, leaving only the manorial affix.

[Halmyre]

Dumbarton; at some time got corrupted from Dunbarton (or even Dùn Breatann if you go back far enough). Oddly, the shire was also Dumbartonshire at one point before being amended.

[Isleworth1961]

REading is Redding on an old map in the Museum and Earley station (1 stop down the Waterloo line from Reading) in next to Erleigh but previously known as Little Hungerford (owing to the woods next to it having been owned by an Earl of Hungerford and called Little Hungerford plantation) which is still the name of this Electricity Substation just East of the A329 adjacent to it - https://goo.gl/maps/MJooM48d1JE2

I think we've covered changes in spelling earlier. Whittlesey in Cambridgeshire has a railway station called "Whittlesea", remembering an earlier spelling. And there are hundreds of other examples.

But it's not always *adding* elements to placenames. Sometimes elements disappear. The Metropolitan Line has a station called Chalfont and Latimer. The Chalfont element covers a number of villages with that name in the valley of the River Misbourne, some with different dedications to the saints of the parish churches. But the Latimer part refers to a village once called "Isenhampstead Latimer", with "Latimer" being what is termed a "manorial affix", naming the family that formerly owned the manor. Nearby is the village of Chenies, which was also once "Isenhampstead Chenies". In both cases, the substantive part of the name has fallen out of use, leaving only the manorial affix.

Incidentally, Chorleywood station was called 'Chorley Wood and Chenies' between 1915 and 1934.

[Ambosc79]

The one that gets me is people around Suffolk and Cambrigeshire and their strange habit of travelling all the way to Lancashire for things like shopping trips, hospital appointments, nights out... I have relatives around there and every time I go to visit I hear someone talking about their latest excursion to Bury for something most people wouldn't travel 200 miles for. I'm waiting to meet the one who set off for Lancashire on a snowy night, got 20 miles and exclaimed "God, Manchester is a long way"- then named the location Godmanchester before turning back and going to Bury St Edmunds instead.

[Chris Bertram]

The one that gets me is people around Suffolk and Cambrigeshire and their strange habit of travelling all the way to Lancashire for things like shopping trips, hospital appointments, nights out... I have relatives around there and every time I go to visit I hear someone talking about their latest excursion to Bury for something most people wouldn't travel 200 miles for. I'm waiting to meet the one who set off for Lancashire on a snowy night, got 20 miles and exclaimed "God, Manchester is a long way"- then named the location Godmanchester before turning back and going to Bury St Edmunds instead.

The Bury in Suffolk is pronounced "Berry". The one in Lancashire/Gtr Manchester (take your pick) is pronounced "Burreh" by locals, and only the BBC call it "Berry" when reading out the footy results.

[poshbakerloo]

Hazel Grove was called Bullock Smithy 1836! "this name was unpopular with its residents and so the settlement was renamed Hazel Grove, possibly due to the large number of hazel trees found in the locale, though more probably from a small hamlet towards High Lane called Hessel Grave"

[Helvellyn]

Hazel Grove was called Bullock Smithy 1836! "this name was unpopular with its residents and so the settlement was renamed Hazel Grove, possibly due to the large number of hazel trees found in the locale, though more probably from a small hamlet towards High Lane called Hessel Grave"

Ah, that explains the pub name.

[Bfivethousand]

Bristolians often use these local abbreviations: Briz (Brislington), Bemmy (Bedminster), Stoke Bish(op), Shire(hampton)...

As I understand it, Bristol itself has been Brigstocke, Brigstowe, Brigstow and Bristow before reaching its current spelling as a result of the area's distinct dialect.

And Brizzle, of course.

[Arcuarius]

Hucknall lost its Torkard in 1915...

[JohnnyMo]

Middlesbrough drop the o sometime,

On a similar thread Hampshire dropped the prefix South, mainly to stop Southampton claiming "county town" status AFAIK.

Letchworth has become Letchworth Garden City.

It was always officially Letchworth Garden City, in the same way Hull is officially Kingston upon Hull. In the run up to the centenary (in 2003) the heritage foundation ran a very successful campaign to use the full name when referring to the town.

[lefthandedspanner]

Middlesbrough drop the o sometime,

Don't know about that - the "-brough" spelling is quite common in northern England, e.g. Conisbrough, Kexbrough and Sprotbrough in South Yorkshire.

[Chris Bertram]

On a similar thread Hampshire dropped the prefix South, mainly to stop Southampton claiming "county town" status AFAIK.

I don't think that's right. Officially, up to 1974, Hampshire was the "County of Southampton", so in that sense Southampton was the county town, even though County Hall was (and still is) in Winchester. Similarly, Derby was the titular town of Derbyshire, while County Hall has been in Matlock for quite a while, due to Derby having been a county borough (as Southampton was). Since 1974 the proper names of the counties have included the "-shire" element where applicable.

[RichardA626]

On a similar thread Hampshire dropped the prefix South, mainly to stop Southampton claiming "county town" status AFAIK.

I don't think that's right. Officially, up to 1974, Hampshire was the "County of Southampton", so in that sense Southampton was the county town, even though County Hall was (and still is) in Winchester. Similarly, Derby was the titular town of Derbyshire, while County Hall has been in Matlock for quite a while, due to Derby having been a county borough (as Southampton was). Since 1974 the proper names of the counties have included the "-shire" element where applicable.

Was that also true for Preston being the county town for Lancashire rather than Lancaster?

[Arcuarius]

On a similar thread Hampshire dropped the prefix South, mainly to stop Southampton claiming "county town" status AFAIK.

I don't think that's right. Officially, up to 1974, Hampshire was the "County of Southampton", so in that sense Southampton was the county town, even though County Hall was (and still is) in Winchester. Similarly, Derby was the titular town of Derbyshire, while County Hall has been in Matlock for quite a while, due to Derby having been a county borough (as Southampton was). Since 1974 the proper names of the counties have included the "-shire" element where applicable.

I always understood it to be a shortening of "Southamptonshire".

[Chris Bertram]

On a similar thread Hampshire dropped the prefix South, mainly to stop Southampton claiming "county town" status AFAIK.

I don't think that's right. Officially, up to 1974, Hampshire was the "County of Southampton", so in that sense Southampton was the county town, even though County Hall was (and still is) in Winchester. Similarly, Derby was the titular town of Derbyshire, while County Hall has been in Matlock for quite a while, due to Derby having been a county borough (as Southampton was). Since 1974 the proper names of the counties have included the "-shire" element where applicable.

Was that also true for Preston being the county town for Lancashire rather than Lancaster?

Lancaster was always the titular county town - it was the County Palatine of Lancaster. County Hall being in Preston was probably a function of where Preston is as compared with Lancaster, it being much more central to the historic county. It was built in 1882, preceding the creation of county councils, and ironically might not have been located in Preston after that, as Preston became a county borough in 1889. If the location of a county hall seems slightly odd, e.g. Beverley for the East Riding, rather than Hull, Wakefield for the West Riding rather than Leeds, then check where the county boroughs were when the county halls were established. Similarly, Leicestershire county hall is in Glenfield, just outside the city of Leicester, and Nottinghamshire county hall is in West Bridgford, across the river from Nottingham itself.