Towns changing names

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Chris Bertram
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Chris Bertram » Wed Nov 22, 2017 14:18

Robert Kilcoyne wrote:Arsenal began as Woolwich Arsenal before the club moved to Islington. Queens Park Rangers owes its name to the Queens Park area sandwiched between Harlesden, Kilburn and Maida Vale, which is part of the London Borough of Brent. However the club's current ground in Loftus Road is actually in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham. Millwall play in the London Borough of Lewisham, i.e. south of the Thames, yet the area shown as Millwall on maps is north of the river, in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets.
You can add to that that Chelsea's ground, Stamford Bridge, is in Hammersmith and Fulham rather than Kensington and Chelsea - though it is *right* on the boundary. Still, you can't force a club to change its name just because it moves ground.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Ambosc79 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:45

Chris Bertram wrote:
RichardA626 wrote:The likes of Queen Of The South & St Mirren used to amuse me when Grandstand read out the final scores. It was years before I found they were in Dumfries & Paisley. Scottish teams are good for playing that game where you have to list all the names of football clubs which begin & end in the same letter.
To be fair, there are a few English examples. Arsenal, for example, doesn't give much away about their location. And Wimbledon don't currently play in their titular town, though they plan to change that. You have to know the history of the Crystal Palace to guess roughly where the team of that name play. But sticking to league teams, almost all name their home town, or a suburb of the same, or play just on the border of the town.

Current top rugby teams include Saracens, Wasps and Harlequins. How many of you know where they play?
Wasps are London Wasps but they play somewhere in Buckinghamshire-ish (Wycombe?). There was IIRC another team called Crystal Palace in the 19th Century, which had nothing to do with the current one.

The hardest English football team to locate from the name alone must be Port Vale- it sounds like it ought to be somewhere by the sea and not "a bus stop in Stoke" (as opposing fans call it). And maybe new boys Forest Green Rovers (in Gloucestershire). I always forget that Orlando Pirates are in South Africa and not Florida.

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Robert Kilcoyne » Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:49

Chris Bertram wrote: You can add to that that Chelsea's ground, Stamford Bridge, is in Hammersmith and Fulham rather than Kensington and Chelsea - though it is *right* on the boundary. Still, you can't force a club to change its name just because it moves ground.
The most famous example of a club now not playing in the city after which the club takes its name is Manchester United; it was formed originally as Newton Heath (within the city boundary) but moved subsequently to Old Trafford (which is part of Stretford and within the boundary of Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council).

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Chris Bertram
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Chris Bertram » Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:55

Ambosc79 wrote:Wasps are London Wasps but they play somewhere in Buckinghamshire-ish (Wycombe?).
In fact Wasps have dropped the "London" bit, and now play at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry! You're remembering their time playing at Adams Park in High Wycombe, but they moved out of there a couple of years ago.
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Robert Kilcoyne
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Robert Kilcoyne » Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:07

Ambosc79 wrote: Wasps are London Wasps but they play somewhere in Buckinghamshire-ish (Wycombe?).
The hardest English football team to locate from the name alone must be Port Vale- it sounds like it ought to be somewhere by the sea and not "a bus stop in Stoke" (as opposing fans call it). And maybe new boys Forest Green Rovers (in Gloucestershire).
Wasps now plays its fixtures at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry. Wasps dropped the "London" from its name in 2014 when it relocated to Coventry and purchased the Ricoh Arena (making Coventry FC its tenants); it used to play at Adams Park (Wycombe FC's ground) in High Wycombe. Saracens played at Vicarage Road in Watford before moving to its current ground at Allianz Park, part of the Barnet Copthall complex (which is in fact in Hendon). Harlequins play at The Stoop in Twickenham, close to the more famous Twickenham stadium.

Forest Green Rovers play in Nailsworth, which makes that town the smallest town ever to host a Football League team.

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by RichardA626 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:22

London Irish played their later years in Reading.

One of the Bristol football teams played in Bath for a few seasons.

It's been a joke that someone wanted to see Chelsea play & put Stamford Bridge in their satnav, only to be directed to the vale of York.

Mottram in Longdendale & Mottram St Andrews are both near to Stockport, so be careful when giving directions!

I once went to a works Christmas do in Mottram St Andrews & someone who was finding their on way there turned up half way through.

They just said they got lost on the way, but it wouldn't surprise me if they went to Mottram in Longdendale instead!
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by trickstat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:17

Ambosc79 wrote: The hardest English football team to locate from the name alone must be Port Vale- it sounds like it ought to be somewhere by the sea and not "a bus stop in Stoke" (as opposing fans call it). And maybe new boys Forest Green Rovers (in Gloucestershire). I always forget that Orlando Pirates are in South Africa and not Florida.
If you allow for Arsenal having originally been Woolwich Arsenal, Port Vale are the only team in the English League of whom no part of their name can be found on a map. For example, Tranmere (currently non-League) is a suburb of Birkenhead, Aston (Villa) an area of Birmingham as is Everton in Liverpool. All the other London clubs' names have some sort of place name although West Ham, Queen's Park Rangers, Millwall, Wimbledon and Crystal Palace currently play their home games in a different locality.

Forest Green is the name of the suburb of Nailsworth that the club's stadium is in. Yes, a suburb of a town with about 5000 residents!

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by trickstat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:53

Chris Bertram wrote: You can add to that that Chelsea's ground, Stamford Bridge, is in Hammersmith and Fulham rather than Kensington and Chelsea - though it is *right* on the boundary. Still, you can't force a club to change its name just because it moves ground.
Actually, Chelsea are a fairly rare example of a club that have never moved ground. They were originally founded as it was felt that the existing stadium of Stamford Bridge needed a resident football team. The nearest tube station is Fulham Broadway. I assume they were called Chelsea because there already was a team called Fulham.

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by trickstat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:00

Robert Kilcoyne wrote: The most famous example of a club now not playing in the city after which the club takes its name is Manchester United; it was formed originally as Newton Heath (within the city boundary) but moved subsequently to Old Trafford (which is part of Stretford and within the boundary of Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council).
Another example is Nottingham Forest, whose ground is in Rushcliffe District which is separated from the City of Nottingham by the River Trent.

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by JohnnyMo » Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:16

trickstat wrote: Another example is Nottingham Forest, whose ground is in Rushcliffe District which is separated from the City of Nottingham by the River Trent.
Even stranger if you add Notts County is just over the river and therefore inside the City.
Ambosc79 wrote:The hardest English football team to locate from the name alone must be Port Vale- it sounds like it ought to be somewhere by the sea and not "a bus stop in Stoke" (as opposing fans call it)...
Or Tranmere Rovers
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by jedikiah » Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:34

trickstat wrote:
Chris Bertram wrote: You can add to that that Chelsea's ground, Stamford Bridge, is in Hammersmith and Fulham rather than Kensington and Chelsea - though it is *right* on the boundary. Still, you can't force a club to change its name just because it moves ground.
Actually, Chelsea are a fairly rare example of a club that have never moved ground. They were originally founded as it was felt that the existing stadium of Stamford Bridge needed a resident football team. The nearest tube station is Fulham Broadway. I assume they were called Chelsea because there already was a team called Fulham.
Stamford Bridge was originally a ground for athletics. It was bought by the Mears brothers with the aim of attracting Fulham FC to move to it from Craven Cottage. They declined to do so, and after considering selling the land to GWR the brothers instead started their own football team.

The area at the time was distinct from Fulham known as Walham Green (as was the station now called Fulham Broadway) although that was not considered for the football team name although Kensington was.

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by trickstat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:56

JohnnyMo wrote:
trickstat wrote: Another example is Nottingham Forest, whose ground is in Rushcliffe District which is separated from the City of Nottingham by the River Trent.
Even stranger if you add Notts County is just over the river and therefore inside the City.
Yes, the team named after the County are in the City while the one whose name actually includes the name of the City are based very close to the offices of the County Council!

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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Big L » Wed Nov 22, 2017 23:07

trickstat wrote:
JohnnyMo wrote:
trickstat wrote: Another example is Nottingham Forest, whose ground is in Rushcliffe District which is separated from the City of Nottingham by the River Trent.
Even stranger if you add Notts County is just over the river and therefore inside the City.
Yes, the team named after the County are in the City while the one whose name actually includes the name of the City are based very close to the offices of the County Council!
Just to add - Forest play at the City Ground.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Big L » Wed Nov 22, 2017 23:09

There isn't a city called Hull for Hull City to play in, but you will find a Hull on the map. More suitable for water polo maybe.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by RichardA626 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 23:45

trickstat wrote:
Chris Bertram wrote: You can add to that that Chelsea's ground, Stamford Bridge, is in Hammersmith and Fulham rather than Kensington and Chelsea - though it is *right* on the boundary. Still, you can't force a club to change its name just because it moves ground.
Actually, Chelsea are a fairly rare example of a club that have never moved ground. They were originally founded as it was felt that the existing stadium of Stamford Bridge needed a resident football team. The nearest tube station is Fulham Broadway. I assume they were called Chelsea because there already was a team called Fulham.
I heard they considered a few different names, such as Tooting & simply London FC before settling on Chelsea.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by ronhale » Thu Nov 23, 2017 09:23

Grimsby play in Cleethorpes.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by punyXpress » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:32

Another 'Stamford Bridge' conundrum:
Just off the ferry at Dover.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Ritchie333 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:47

On old maps, you can see a ferry route across the Menai Strait from Port Dinorwic. Nowadays, it's called Y Felinheli.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Arcuarius » Fri Nov 24, 2017 16:59

Ambosc79 wrote:The hardest English football team to locate from the name alone must be Port Vale- it sounds like it ought to be somewhere by the sea and not "a bus stop in Stoke" (as opposing fans call it)...
Port Fail ;)
RichardA626 wrote:One of the Bristol football teams played in Bath for a few seasons.
Yep, Rovers ground-shared with Bath City for ten years while moving away from Eastville.
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Re: Towns changing names

Post by Bfivethousand » Fri Nov 24, 2017 22:18

Chris Bertram wrote:Seriously, Scottish league football club names are a hoot. Of course everyone knows that Rangers and Celtic are the Glasgow "Old Firm", and sometimes (incorrectly) call them "Glasgow Celtic" and "Glasgow Rangers", and most folk know about Heart of Midlothian and Hibernian in Edinburgh, but how would you guess where Albion Rovers (Coatbridge), Raith Rovers (Glenrothes), Clyde (Cumbernauld) and Morton (Greenock, but at least they now put that first in the name) play? And Partick Thistle don't play in Partick, do they?
Up until last year, if you were asked which British towns and cities had two or more league teams, the one that would have caught many people out would have been Falkirk. The eponymously named club still play there, as do East Stirlingshire who lost their league status last year following a play-off with Edinburgh City.
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