A430 to M5 ?

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roadphotos
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A430 to M5 ?

Post by roadphotos » Fri Jan 21, 2022 22:51

Does the A430 now start at the M5 (Junction 12) south of Gloucester ?. The SABRE Wiki says it does but I can't find any maps that show this road as the A430. GSV has the road as the B4008, OS show it as the A38 but none of the maps that I can see (paper or online) show it as the A430. I'm sure it's been discussed on here before about the main link to Gloucester from the south being a 'B Road' and how ridiculous it is so perhaps it's been upgraded to the A430 to make more sense. Does anyone know for sure ?.

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SouthWest Philip
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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by SouthWest Philip » Fri Jan 21, 2022 22:56

roadphotos wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 22:51
Does the A430 now start at the M5 (Junction 12) south of Gloucester ?. The SABRE Wiki says it does but I can't find any maps that show this road as the A430. GSV has the road as the B4008, OS show it as the A38 but none of the maps that I can see (paper or online) show it as the A430. I'm sure it's been discussed on here before about the main link to Gloucester from the south being a 'B Road' and how ridiculous it is so perhaps it's been upgraded to the A430 to make more sense. Does anyone know for sure ?.
It's now signed as the A430 from the A38 end. It may simply be that National Highways England haven't updated their signage?

The OS has shown it as spur of the A38 for about 3 years now, which would also be more sensible than the previous B-road status. I wonder if Gloucestershire Council could confirm the road's current status?

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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by Beardy5632 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 21:10

Yes it starts on the M5 now. I think it was done at the end of 2019 when they'd finished the roadworks on the A38 roundabout as I don't remember seeing it signed as A430 before that. They just need to update the signs at J12 as some of them still say that it's the B4008.
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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by roadphotos » Sun Jan 23, 2022 22:03

Thanks, yes I see on GSV that both signs on the A38 (from the north and the south) on approach to the Cross Keys Roundabout at Hardwicke now say that the small section of dual carriageway to the M5 is the A430. I don't think any maps have been updated yet.

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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by Owain » Wed Jan 26, 2022 15:41

It is now shown very clearly as A430 on SABRE Maps.

I'm not convinced of the logic though! To my mind it would make more sense as a spur of the A38.
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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by Beardy5632 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 17:52

The only thing I can think of is to have a single number linking the M5 to the Over Causeway (OK not quite single because of the multiplex with the A38).

Alternatively they could have thought 'road changed from B to A so must allocate A430 number to it' which seems to be the case in and around the city. :lol:
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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by Owain » Wed Jan 26, 2022 21:07

Beardy5632 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 17:52
The only thing I can think of is to have a single number linking the M5 to the Over Causeway (OK not quite single because of the multiplex with the A38).

Alternatively they could have thought 'road changed from B to A so must allocate A430 number to it' which seems to be the case in and around the city. :lol:
That is presumably the rationale, but it would make more sense if (1) it didn't last for a few hundred metres before disappearing under the lengthy A38 multiplex to which you refer, and (2) the A430 didn't then end on the A417 at the lights-controlled junction on the Over Causeway.

What might make more sense would be:

- for the A38 to have a spur to the M5
- the A430 to run from the A38 Frankenstein's monster junction up the west side of the city, all the way to the Over roundabout rather than terminating on the causeway
- for the various other parts of the A430 around the city centre (Kingsholm Road, Gouda Way, Black Dog Way, Bruton Way, Trier Way) to take different numbers like A4303 and A4304
- A417 to be removed completely from the city, and routed from the Barnwood roundabout to meet the A40 at the new hamburger (and renumbered A434 or A440 all the way from Swindon), while the original ring road (e.g. Estcourt Road) could become A4305

In short, I don't think it is helpful to number almost every major artery within the urban area that isn't the A38 as A430!
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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by Beardy5632 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 14:03

Yes it is a bit unhelpful. It must be one of the only roads in the UK that acts as an inner ring road and 'outer' bypass at the same time!

Just thinking though would it be better to make Gouda/Black Dog/Bruton/Trier Way as well as the western section of St Oswalds Road part of the A4301? It would mean that the ring around the city centre would have the same number rather than 3 different ones.

The main A417 definitely doesn't need to go along its current route especially as the spur between Elmbridge and C&G is signed as A417 in both directions.
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Re: A430 to M5 ?

Post by SouthWest Philip » Thu Jan 27, 2022 18:36

I think I'd be inclined to rationalise the A-road network within Gloucester. I'd keep the mainline of the A430 between the A38 and A40 at Over. Have the A38 maintain a sort of eastern ring road boundary, but taking over the A417 spur to Barnwood rather turning towards the city. The A417 and A40 multiplex around the bypass to the north and everything within this outer ring road the becomes B-roads.

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