The Great C Road hunt!

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c2R
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by c2R »

Euan wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 14:22
c2R wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 09:24
Euan wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 09:14

I’ve yet to complete the traces for the remaining routes. Up until now I have been working with batches of about six routes at a time tracing them out and then writing the articles. At the moment I am on C627 and the highest number is C711, although within this there is a gap between the Tyrone component of the sequence and “additional” routes at the very end of the sequence with numbers over 700.

I’m perfectly happy for you to generate the remaining stub pages. If I need to have the routes traced out first then I can just work on that for now and revisit the thread once I am finished.
I don't need the traces first - as FB had already done them meant that I didn't need to get the list from anywhere else.

If you paste the list of numbers you want generating here, then I'll use that and create you a bundle of stubs. It just saves a little bit of time :)

Edit - I take it its just the red ones from the infobox:
C628 • C629 • C630 • C631 • C632 • C633 • C634 • C635 • C636 • C637 • C638 • C639 • C640 • C641 • C642 • C643 • C644 • C645 • C646 • C647 • C648 • C649 • C650 • C651 • C652 • C653 • C654 • C655 • C656 • C657 • C658 • C659 • C660 • C661 • C662 • C663 • C664 • C665 • C666 • C667 • C668 • C669 • C670 • C671 • C672 • C673 • C674 • C675 • C676 • C677 • C678 • C679 • C680 • C681 • C682 • C683 • C684 • C685 • C686 • C687 • C688 • C689 • C690 • C691 • C692 • C693 • C694 • C695 • C696 • C697 • C698 • C699 • C700 • C701 • C702 • C703 • C704 • C705 • C706 • C707 • C708 • C709 • C710 • C711
All of those numbers except C641, C685-C700, C705 and C707 need to be generated. Based on the route list these numbers do not appear to be in use in Northern Ireland.
OK, I'll fire up my Windows VM later and do it. I'll put them all as being in County Tyrone - you'll need to manually adjust any that may cross the boundaries.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by c2R »

c2R wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 14:34
Euan wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 14:22
c2R wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 09:24

I don't need the traces first - as FB had already done them meant that I didn't need to get the list from anywhere else.

If you paste the list of numbers you want generating here, then I'll use that and create you a bundle of stubs. It just saves a little bit of time :)

Edit - I take it its just the red ones from the infobox:
C628 • C629 • C630 • C631 • C632 • C633 • C634 • C635 • C636 • C637 • C638 • C639 • C640 • C641 • C642 • C643 • C644 • C645 • C646 • C647 • C648 • C649 • C650 • C651 • C652 • C653 • C654 • C655 • C656 • C657 • C658 • C659 • C660 • C661 • C662 • C663 • C664 • C665 • C666 • C667 • C668 • C669 • C670 • C671 • C672 • C673 • C674 • C675 • C676 • C677 • C678 • C679 • C680 • C681 • C682 • C683 • C684 • C685 • C686 • C687 • C688 • C689 • C690 • C691 • C692 • C693 • C694 • C695 • C696 • C697 • C698 • C699 • C700 • C701 • C702 • C703 • C704 • C705 • C706 • C707 • C708 • C709 • C710 • C711
All of those numbers except C641, C685-C700, C705 and C707 need to be generated. Based on the route list these numbers do not appear to be in use in Northern Ireland.
OK, I'll fire up my Windows VM later and do it. I'll put them all as being in County Tyrone - you'll need to manually adjust any that may cross the boundaries.
Done. They're created along with their categories, disambiguation pages, their disambiguation pages' categories, and their galleries. Over to you!
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Kalna »

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but there is a sign for the C2030 on the TOTSO between Buttermere and Cockermouth. Location: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/54. ... 087047,18z
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Euan »

I have now finished adding the Northern Ireland C roads to the wiki (phew!) as County Tyrone's class III network has now been covered. The C601-C700 range appears to have been the original allocation of numbers for the county with C684 the highest number currently in use while C685-C700 remain unused.

As ever, the numbering appears to follow a geographical sequence around the county looking something like this:
Image
The distribution of the numbers can therefore be broken down into rough groups as follows:
:arrow: C601 - C615 - Strabane/Western Sperrins/Strule
:arrow: C616 - C634 - Cookstown/N+E Omagh/Carrickmore
:arrow: C635 - C646 - Dungannon/Coalisland/Moy
:arrow: C647 - C656 - Monaghan borderlands/Clogher
:arrow: C657 - C668 - Fintona/Dromore/S+W Omagh
:arrow: C669 - C680 - Castlederg/Sion Mills/Newtownstewart
:arrow: C681 - C684 - misc
The only numbers out of these which do not seem to be currently in use are C618 and C641. C618 is defunct while C641 has never been used.

I have previously noted that many of the NI C routes are not that simple and can quite often consist of multiple different roads and this seems to be especially prevalent here. I am wondering whether this might be partly down to the vastness of the county with a lack of sizeable settlements anywhere in between the main towns, where number usage may try to reflect population distribution a bit more than you would usually expect them to. However this is just a thought - there could be other reasons as well.

The C685-C700 numbering gap is the sixth and final significant gap in the NI class III sequence and there are additionally a small number of C7xx numbers distributed across NI which are not part of the county number blocks. Numbers C701-C704 and C706-C711 are currently in use. As previously suspected, C701-C704 are urban routes within Belfast and C706-C711 are a mix of Fermanagh routes and short urban links.

I definitely have found the C road numbering in Northern Ireland very fascinating given that it does follow a relatively noticeable sequence in comparison to the A road and B road network. It's worth saying that local C road numbering systems can quite often not look tidy or logical and if a pattern does exist it can be a bit tricky to spot, so the NI county systems do rank highly in that respect. Rather bizarrely, it could be argued that in Northern Ireland C road numbers have more uniqueness than A and B road numbers given the double use of the A37, B52 and B53 numbers while I have found no such duplicate C road numbers.

A great C road hunt indeed.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by c2R »

Euan wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 08:45 I have now finished adding the Northern Ireland C roads to the wiki (phew!)
Well done; I can see the hours that you've put into completing this, and thanks for all the additional detail and analysis you've done on the route as well. It's certainly an achievement.

I'm aware I still need to look at the hard limit of 500 on the road list on the main page.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Euan »

c2R wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 09:25
Euan wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 08:45 I have now finished adding the Northern Ireland C roads to the wiki (phew!)
Well done; I can see the hours that you've put into completing this, and thanks for all the additional detail and analysis you've done on the route as well. It's certainly an achievement.

I'm aware I still need to look at the hard limit of 500 on the road list on the main page.
Thank you. Yes, I noticed that the list on the main page only goes as far as C663 which would be the 500th road on it. Hopefully that can be sorted without too much difficulty.

Do you think it might be a good idea if the navbox was split into number ranges given that it is very large or do you think that it would be easier to find the roads if the navbox just stays as it is? I know this was discussed quite a while back. I'm aware that some counties also have large class III navboxes such as Cambridgeshire and Kent, but maybe the fact that the class III numbering is NI-wide might justify splitting the navbox?
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by c2R »

Euan wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 19:54
c2R wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 09:25
Euan wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 08:45 I have now finished adding the Northern Ireland C roads to the wiki (phew!)
Well done; I can see the hours that you've put into completing this, and thanks for all the additional detail and analysis you've done on the route as well. It's certainly an achievement.

I'm aware I still need to look at the hard limit of 500 on the road list on the main page.
Thank you. Yes, I noticed that the list on the main page only goes as far as C663 which would be the 500th road on it. Hopefully that can be sorted without too much difficulty.

Do you think it might be a good idea if the navbox was split into number ranges given that it is very large or do you think that it would be easier to find the roads if the navbox just stays as it is? I know this was discussed quite a while back. I'm aware that some counties also have large class III navboxes such as Cambridgeshire and Kent, but maybe the fact that the class III numbering is NI-wide might justify splitting the navbox?
I've had a play with the main page and ended up splitting the road list by County to get around the 500 limit - it's a bit of a fudge, but if I try to increase the limit, even by 1, dpl throws an error. I've also moved the map onto a subpage, as the combination of the map and the road lists was hitting the server quite hard - separating the dynamic map also allows it to be made nice and big.

The navboxes are quite large - it might be worth introducing some paging onto them to make it nicer on mobile browsers, perhaps - I'll have a think about the simplest way to automate that.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by GC_A690 »

Been a long time for me with this thread, and with C roads in general, but are people aware of this map? https://www.findmystreet.co.uk/map It uses NSG data to provide a free-to-use, interactive map of every road and street which allows you to see not only the USRN number of a section, and its name, but also its classification where that's been provided by the local authority.

Although it doesn't give information on numbering except where this is included in the street name, it's still a useful resource particularly where information from other sources seems patchy or ambiguous. For example it solves the Central Bedfordshire ambiguity listed at Wiki:Great C Road Hunt - the road from Everton to the Cambridgeshire border is a C-road and the road from Potton is not.

Just thought it was an interesting thing to draw people's attention to, as I don't remember having seen it mentioned.

From the SABRE Wiki: Wiki :
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by solocle »

I thought there was a more specific thread, but another in C roads on signs!
Capture3.png
C13 (Dorset)

From the SABRE Wiki: C13 (Dorset) :

The C13 is a class III road in Dorset that runs rather nicely from the B3081 to the B3082. At the Shaftesbury end, the B3081 has a junction with a short dual carriageway stretch of the A30. After 1 mile, the B3081 TOTSOs, and the C13 is born, carrying straight on. The road runs parallel with the A350 for most of its length - traffic counts in 2008 in fact showed that the C13 carries 60% more traffic than the parallel A road! And with good reason. While the A350

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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Mapper89062 »

I don't know if this is any use or not, but Suffolk County Council has this spreadsheet that details all roads they maintain in Suffolk, which includes details of C-roads:

https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/assets/Roads ... reets.xlsx

Unfortunately it's been designed so that roads get listed by name, with the numbers broken up where they span multiple road names, but it seems to be updated every month and is probably the most consistent source we can use from them.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Euan »

I've just finished adding the Northumberland C roads to the wiki with the help of a list of numbered routes obtained via a FoI request from 2016 along with a useful interactive map:

Route list - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... nd_u_roads

Interactive map - https://northumberland.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 44c9a76436

I have managed to find all of the "expected" numbers included in the table on the interactive map with the exception of C42. I have been unable to find any C42 in Northumberland using the search function on the map. Interestingly, at the same time the C426 (Northumberland) is absent from the table which is a number I did manage to find on the map. It makes me wonder whether the table provided in the FoI request has a typo in it where C42 should read C426.

Although the FoI request dates back to 2016, if you look at where the C425 (Northumberland) is located in Berwick, it seems somewhat unlikely that it could have existed justifiably without the C426 as it would otherwise be cut off from the other classified roads in Berwick. I can't be certain and there may well be a C42 somewhere in Northumberland, but a typo in the table does seem like a potential explanation for the absence of the C426 and a "lost" C42.
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From the SABRE Wiki: C426 (Northumberland) :


The C426 starts at a roundabout on the A1167 Northumberland Road in the south of Berwick-upon-Tweed and heads east along Billendean Terrace. After passing underneath the East Coast Main Line, the route follows Billendean Road and Princes Street to a junction from which it turns left onto Dock Road. The road follows the River Tweed on its southern bank before coming to an end on Main Street, C424.

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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by solocle »

Resource for Cornwall - an interactive map. https://map.cornwall.gov.uk/website/ccm ... %20network
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Steven »

Euan wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 08:53 I've just finished adding the Northumberland C roads to the wiki with the help of a list of numbered routes obtained via a FoI request from 2016 along with a useful interactive map
Thank you! It's been great watching the numbers of them grow, so thank you very much for your hard work.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by solocle »

For Devon, there's also an interactive map, but numbers aren't provided.

Pairing these up with the data at this FOI looks promising.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by rileyrob »

rileyrob wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:16 In the former Tayside region we have the following numbering in use:
:arrow: Cx-Cxx rural routes scattered across the region, but mostly in Angus.
:arrow: C1xx - apparently not used
:arrow: C2xx - Dundee
:arrow: C3xx - apparently not used
:arrow: C4xx - Rural routes predominantly in Perth & Kinross
:arrow: C5xx - ditto
:arrow: C6xx - Urban routes in Angus.

I can find no list detailing any C roads wholly within Perth, nor indeed many short routes within other towns / urban areas within Perthshire. I am therefore suspecting the the C1xx and C3xx numbers were used for these roads, as it seems highly unlikely that there were never any C roads within any of the Perthshire towns. However, I cannot find any evidence on line to support this
I have now found this interactive map on the P&K website: https://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/19814/Ro ... enance-map which very handily identifies the classification of every road in the council area. However, it still doesn't give us any of the C1xx or C3xx numbers. Indeed, I'm struggling to even find any U roads in Perth itself, so it looks like we need to conclude that there are no longer any urban C roads in P&K, except those rural routes (C4xx / C5xx) which stray in to the towns.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Euan »

rileyrob wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 09:29
rileyrob wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:16 In the former Tayside region we have the following numbering in use:
:arrow: Cx-Cxx rural routes scattered across the region, but mostly in Angus.
:arrow: C1xx - apparently not used
:arrow: C2xx - Dundee
:arrow: C3xx - apparently not used
:arrow: C4xx - Rural routes predominantly in Perth & Kinross
:arrow: C5xx - ditto
:arrow: C6xx - Urban routes in Angus.

I can find no list detailing any C roads wholly within Perth, nor indeed many short routes within other towns / urban areas within Perthshire. I am therefore suspecting the the C1xx and C3xx numbers were used for these roads, as it seems highly unlikely that there were never any C roads within any of the Perthshire towns. However, I cannot find any evidence on line to support this
I have now found this interactive map on the P&K website: https://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/19814/Ro ... enance-map which very handily identifies the classification of every road in the council area. However, it still doesn't give us any of the C1xx or C3xx numbers. Indeed, I'm struggling to even find any U roads in Perth itself, so it looks like we need to conclude that there are no longer any urban C roads in P&K, except those rural routes (C4xx / C5xx) which stray in to the towns.
Weren’t there proposals at one point for Fife to be absorbed into the Tayside region? It could be that either the C1xx or C3xx numbers (or both, with potential splitting on an urban/rural basis similar to Angus) were intended for use within Fife. The plan could have been to take the existing Fife C road numbers and increment them each by an appropriate multiple of 100. That sort of idea appears to be what has happened with the Perthshire/P&K numbers - adding 400 to each number in order for the regional council to distinguish them from the Angus numbers.
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by rileyrob »

Euan wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 08:31Weren’t there proposals at one point for Fife to be absorbed into the Tayside region? It could be that either the C1xx or C3xx numbers (or both, with potential splitting on an urban/rural basis similar to Angus) were intended for use within Fife. The plan could have been to take the existing Fife C road numbers and increment them each by an appropriate multiple of 100. That sort of idea appears to be what has happened with the Perthshire/P&K numbers - adding 400 to each number in order for the regional council to distinguish them from the Angus numbers.
As far as I can remember it was only the Tayport area and its hinterland that were proposed to be in Tayside, I think that the majority of the rest of Fife was to go with Lothian...
No, I'm wrong (although I'm sure I've seen a different map elsewhere), Fife was to be cut in half: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Com ... n_Scotland so the whole north east district would have been in Tayside. I still don't see that as enough C roads for two ranges of a hundred though.

It also seems incredible that Perth only seems to have one B, two C, and 1 U roads within the Urban Area. (I may have missed a couple, but it's still far fewer than any comparable size town or city)
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by GC_A690 »

Euan wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 08:53 I've just finished adding the Northumberland C roads to the wiki with the help of a list of numbered routes obtained via a FoI request from 2016 along with a useful interactive map:

Route list - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... nd_u_roads

Interactive map - https://northumberland.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 44c9a76436

I have managed to find all of the "expected" numbers included in the table on the interactive map with the exception of C42. I have been unable to find any C42 in Northumberland using the search function on the map. Interestingly, at the same time the C426 (Northumberland) is absent from the table which is a number I did manage to find on the map. It makes me wonder whether the table provided in the FoI request has a typo in it where C42 should read C426.

Although the FoI request dates back to 2016, if you look at where the C425 (Northumberland) is located in Berwick, it seems somewhat unlikely that it could have existed justifiably without the C426 as it would otherwise be cut off from the other classified roads in Berwick. I can't be certain and there may well be a C42 somewhere in Northumberland, but a typo in the table does seem like a potential explanation for the absence of the C426 and a "lost" C42.
Late to this because I check here so sporadically, but I noticed that where Northumberland's class III routes cross the authority's southern boundary you've identified all the different numbers for the continuations of these routes. What I really want to know is where did you get the Gateshead numbers from, because I've never found a resource online that identifies them?

From the SABRE Wiki: C426 (Northumberland) :


The C426 starts at a roundabout on the A1167 Northumberland Road in the south of Berwick-upon-Tweed and heads east along Billendean Terrace. After passing underneath the East Coast Main Line, the route follows Billendean Road and Princes Street to a junction from which it turns left onto Dock Road. The road follows the River Tweed on its southern bank before coming to an end on Main Street, C424.

... Read More
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by Euan »

GC_A690 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 15:14
Euan wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 08:53 I've just finished adding the Northumberland C roads to the wiki with the help of a list of numbered routes obtained via a FoI request from 2016 along with a useful interactive map:

Route list - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... nd_u_roads

Interactive map - https://northumberland.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 44c9a76436

I have managed to find all of the "expected" numbers included in the table on the interactive map with the exception of C42. I have been unable to find any C42 in Northumberland using the search function on the map. Interestingly, at the same time the C426 (Northumberland) is absent from the table which is a number I did manage to find on the map. It makes me wonder whether the table provided in the FoI request has a typo in it where C42 should read C426.

Although the FoI request dates back to 2016, if you look at where the C425 (Northumberland) is located in Berwick, it seems somewhat unlikely that it could have existed justifiably without the C426 as it would otherwise be cut off from the other classified roads in Berwick. I can't be certain and there may well be a C42 somewhere in Northumberland, but a typo in the table does seem like a potential explanation for the absence of the C426 and a "lost" C42.
Late to this because I check here so sporadically, but I noticed that where Northumberland's class III routes cross the authority's southern boundary you've identified all the different numbers for the continuations of these routes. What I really want to know is where did you get the Gateshead numbers from, because I've never found a resource online that identifies them?
I found the numbers for Gateshead within the Network Management Plan published by the council:

https://www.gateshead.gov.uk/media/2200 ... 3032100000

There is a section concerning traffic sensitivity levels along every classified stretch of road maintained by the authority which references route numbers for all A, B and C roads.
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From the SABRE Wiki: C426 (Northumberland) :


The C426 starts at a roundabout on the A1167 Northumberland Road in the south of Berwick-upon-Tweed and heads east along Billendean Terrace. After passing underneath the East Coast Main Line, the route follows Billendean Road and Princes Street to a junction from which it turns left onto Dock Road. The road follows the River Tweed on its southern bank before coming to an end on Main Street, C424.

... Read More
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Re: The Great C Road hunt!

Post by GC_A690 »

Euan wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 07:23
GC_A690 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 15:14
Euan wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 08:53 I've just finished adding the Northumberland C roads to the wiki with the help of a list of numbered routes obtained via a FoI request from 2016 along with a useful interactive map:

Route list - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... nd_u_roads

Interactive map - https://northumberland.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 44c9a76436

I have managed to find all of the "expected" numbers included in the table on the interactive map with the exception of C42. I have been unable to find any C42 in Northumberland using the search function on the map. Interestingly, at the same time the C426 (Northumberland) is absent from the table which is a number I did manage to find on the map. It makes me wonder whether the table provided in the FoI request has a typo in it where C42 should read C426.

Although the FoI request dates back to 2016, if you look at where the C425 (Northumberland) is located in Berwick, it seems somewhat unlikely that it could have existed justifiably without the C426 as it would otherwise be cut off from the other classified roads in Berwick. I can't be certain and there may well be a C42 somewhere in Northumberland, but a typo in the table does seem like a potential explanation for the absence of the C426 and a "lost" C42.
Late to this because I check here so sporadically, but I noticed that where Northumberland's class III routes cross the authority's southern boundary you've identified all the different numbers for the continuations of these routes. What I really want to know is where did you get the Gateshead numbers from, because I've never found a resource online that identifies them?
I found the numbers for Gateshead within the Network Management Plan published by the council:

https://www.gateshead.gov.uk/media/2200 ... 3032100000

There is a section concerning traffic sensitivity levels along every classified stretch of road maintained by the authority which references route numbers for all A, B and C roads.
Wow, well there we go, nice work! And a tremendous job on Northumberland, a marathon completed

From the SABRE Wiki: C426 (Northumberland) :


The C426 starts at a roundabout on the A1167 Northumberland Road in the south of Berwick-upon-Tweed and heads east along Billendean Terrace. After passing underneath the East Coast Main Line, the route follows Billendean Road and Princes Street to a junction from which it turns left onto Dock Road. The road follows the River Tweed on its southern bank before coming to an end on Main Street, C424.

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