The Great C Road hunt!

[ellandback]

I've now had a bash at Halifax's C5954 but need help with the route box, please. I'm not sure how to get it to focus more precisely on the correct location.

[c2R]

Hello, you can go into SABRE maps (follow the instructions I added a few posts ago), and click somewhere near the middle of your route. This will give you the lat= and long= parameters that you need to put in the SABRE maps attribute in the route box.

It'll be similar to the two numbers that are already there as Calderdale isn't very geographically big. zoom= then lets you zoom in or out.

Cheers
chris

[Steven]

I've now had a bash at Halifax's C5954 but need help with the route box, please. I'm not sure how to get it to focus more precisely on the correct location.

Have you taken a look at the Roads Wiki Guide?

It should help with that sort of question - and if it doesn't, let us know and we can fix the missing bits.

[ellandback]

Thanks both. I did have a look at the guide last week and found it pretty clear and comprehensive, but there's an awful lot to take in. Today I tried to follow the instructions upthread but nothing happened when I got to step 6 so I think I must have done something wrong. The co-ordinates didn't appear (or if they did I couldn't see where) and it didn't start tracing. As an interim solution however, I have now managed to get co-ordinates from putting a marker on Google maps and have entered those and also sorted the zoom level out. It's better than it was.

[GC_A690]

I've created a wiki list of Sunderland Council (Class III roads) which I'm going to go about populating with data from the FOI request: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-641084. Unfortunately the data is not in the most brilliant format and does not give start and end points for the roads in question - for some these can be inferred but for others it's not so easy.

[rileyrob]

I've created a wiki list of Sunderland Council (Class III roads) which I'm going to go about populating with data from the FOI request: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-641084. Unfortunately the data is not in the most brilliant format and does not give start and end points for the roads in question - for some these can be inferred but for others it's not so easy.

It looks much the same as some of the lists I have been working with. You will need to make assumptions, and quite often using the Sabre Maps overlay feature allows you to see where a route ran before a housing estate / bypass obliterated it, which will help plot routes. If you're not convinced you have the correct route, just a best guess, just word the text to reflect that and then if we ever get better details we can update. Good luck and have fun!

[GC_A690]

I've done my first two roads pages, C511 (Sunderland) and C512 (Sunderland) - could somebody please check that the routeboxes are OK, that all the right categories have been linked etc? For some reason the wiki doesn't appear to want to display my traces, can anybody identify the cause behind that?

I think a template needs creating to go in the navbox - I think that's beyond me right now! I wonder if it would be appropriate to have one template covering the 5 met authorities of Tyne & Wear - I suspect they are numbered as part of one system although N Tyneside and Gateshead councils appear less helpful than the other three.

Oh, and I need to create disambiguation pages, but I can probably manage that myself when I get the chance.

[rileyrob]

I think that the problem is that the wiki doesn't like spaces in the trace names. If you go into maps and load each trace, you can re-save it with the underscore _ in place of each space. I've already changed the trace names on C511, so hopefully you will be able to see them appear. I've also added the template to the navbox, and will sort out a template shortly.

Otherwise, I can't see any problems, thanks!

[rileyrob]

I think I may have found the longest C road in the country - the C125n (Dumfries and Galloway). At 24.3 miles long, it exceeds the Kinloch Hourn Road, which is a mere 21.6 miles (but probably still the longest dead end), and all the other C roads I have come across so far in Scotland.

It would be interesting, if not amazing, if anything longer turned up!

[c2R]

I think I may have found the longest C road in the country - the C125n (Dumfries and Galloway). At 24.3 miles long, it exceeds the Kinloch Hourn Road, which is a mere 21.6 miles (but probably still the longest dead end), and all the other C roads I have come across so far in Scotland.

It would be interesting, if not amazing, if anything longer turned up!

I've not found anything anywhere near as long yet - a 10 miler in Cambs and something a bit longer in Herts. It'd be good if we had more documentation on how some of the templates work - we've got the data on the site, so it would be good to be able to list the top ten by length for example out of all C Roads.

[rileyrob]

I've just finished off the East Renfrewshire Council (Class III roads) and found one or two interesting anomalies:

As far as I can tell, the C14 (East Renfrewshire) listed by ER council is in Johnstone in Renfrewshire!
I am really not at all sure I have found the correct route for the C16 (East Renfrewshire), but this is my best guess, as I cannot find a Broadlea Road.
Unless anyone can work it out another way, there appears to be a lengthy useless multiplex between the C40 (East Renfrewshire) and the C44 (East Renfrewshire)

The council list can be found here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... _roads_125

[c2R]

The D&G list is really interesting, Rob, with the suffixes to denote the previous administrations' systems and no real inclination to bring any of it into a single consistent system...

[rileyrob]

Yes, it's similar to the Aberdeenshire (and Moray) system, in that both use suffixes for the post 75 district / management areas. In D&G, the a (Annadale & Eskdale) and w (Wigton) suffixes seem to be applied direct to the old county numbering. However, as n (Nithsdale) spanned Dumfriesshire and Kirkcudbrightshire, there seems to have been some amendments made to accommodate number which would otherwise be duplicated. I think one or two of the s (Stewartry) numbers have also been changed.

Unlike Aberdeenshire, however, no effort has been made to unify routes with a single suffix, as a rule anyway. The C14s is listed with a duplication of the route described as the C14n. I'm not sure if this is a clumsy description for the latter, or if the former has been renumbered.

I think Glen said that Highland used a similar system with suffixes until a few years ago when everything was renumbered afresh.

As for the other regions where suffixes may have been used:
Strathclyde - no evidence that the old county systems were ever replaced, nor that any suffixes were applied. Where boundaries (primarily Dunbartonshire & North Lanarkshire) have moved, routes seem to have been renumbered to fit as needed.
Lothian - All of the C roads appear to have been numbered in a contiuous system running west to east. Further changes in Edinburgh.
Borders - ditto. However, they do work by county from west to east, but are numbered in the sequence of the easternmost county
Tayside - there is a confusion of numbering systems here, but they overlap one another, so I don't think it is as simple as adding a 4 or 2 to the front of an old number. Numbers also cross council / county borders.
Central - all routes renumbered, fairly randomly

[rileyrob]

I now just have South Lanarkshire to do before all of the numbered C roads that have been identified in Scotland are complete. However, here's a puzzler for you:

In the former Tayside region we have the following numbering in use:
Cx-Cxx rural routes scattered across the region, but mostly in Angus.
C1xx - apparently not used
C2xx - Dundee
C3xx - apparently not used
C4xx - Rural routes predominantly in Perth & Kinross
C5xx - ditto
C6xx - Urban routes in Angus.

I can find no list detailing any C roads wholly within Perth, nor indeed many short routes within other towns / urban areas within Perthshire. I am therefore suspecting the the C1xx and C3xx numbers were used for these roads, as it seems highly unlikely that there were never any C roads within any of the Perthshire towns. However, I cannot find any evidence on line to support this (ignoring various C3xx in Perth WA).

I also suspect, although cannot prove it, that the first digit of the number was added in a similar manner to the suffixes used in Aberdeenshire or Dumfries and Galloway, in order to ensure all routes had a unique number (with a few crossing district borders).

[rileyrob]

With the exception of any caveats in posts above, that is Scotland now complete.

There are 2 councils (Glasgow and Renfrewshire) where no appropriate list seems to be available, and a number where the data is questionable / probably incomplete, but everything I have found (with some help as above), with any certainty is now on the Wiki.

[Steven]

With the exception of any caveats in posts above, that is Scotland now complete.

There are 2 councils (Glasgow and Renfrewshire) where no appropriate list seems to be available, and a number where the data is questionable / probably incomplete, but everything I have found (with some help as above), with any certainty is now on the Wiki.

Thank you Rob - your hard work is, as ever, very much appreciated.

[c2R]

With the exception of any caveats in posts above, that is Scotland now complete.

There are 2 councils (Glasgow and Renfrewshire) where no appropriate list seems to be available, and a number where the data is questionable / probably incomplete, but everything I have found (with some help as above), with any certainty is now on the Wiki.

Thank you Rob - your hard work is, as ever, very much appreciated.

I second that. Having done half of Hertfordshire and half of Cambridgeshire now I can testify to how time consuming it is!

[Euan]

I've just been doing a bit more digging for information and have found something potentially useful for East Dunbartonshire. On their website is a section all about winter road gritting which features an interactive gritting priority map. The interactive part is that you can click on any route and a few details will appear - including route numbers if the road has one. This is indeed the case for C roads as well so while it is not a nicely formatted list, the info is there. If we check the map for routes that we understand to be C roads based on the unnumbered list then we may be able to create a fully numbered list on the wiki. It would be interesting to see how well the numbers tie in with those in nearby authorities.

[rileyrob]

Yet Again, Euan, thank you very much, that's Brilliant! I have been able to find numbers for all but one of the C roads in East Dunbartonshire now. I might not get them all sorted on the Wiki today though, and then I'm away for a couple of weeks, so apologies if my post above was a little premature!

[Euan]

You're welcome Rob. I think that leaves just three council areas in Scotland with partial or incomplete information. I am aware of a small number of C roads in Renfrewshire from things like roadworks reports, but only a few. I haven't found any details on numbering for Glasgow, so an unnumbered list on the wiki for these areas will have to do for the time being.
If I find anything else I'll let you know!