The Great C Road hunt!

[si404]

I've nearly finished Central Bedfordshire Council (Class III roads), with two roads to go. However one isn't very descriptive and can be one of several roads, so I will hold off for now on that one.

[si404]

Whoever did the Reading list, well done.

It was easy (save Central Reading) as some genius made a simple system with easy-to-follow routes.

As some of you may be aware I brought in the classified road numbering in Reading in 2007

Presumably it was, beforehand, the interesting Berkshire system, where every C or D road (Slough's C roads are all in Colnbrook, but it's D Roads fit the pattern) has some ridiculous 4-digit number. It works roughly with 10km grid squares: so Ascot is in SU96 and the roads are C96xx while Hungerford is in SU36 so C36xx roads are found there and Cookham is in SU88 and C88xx roads are found there. TQ07 (Langley, etc) is C98xx, or - if it was in Bucks (ie Colnbrook and Poyle CPs) until 1996, C7xx (lose the trailing zero).

Reading's would have been C77xx, of which there is a C7722 heading north from Wargrave to Hurley (and oddly a road in Maidenhead at the same time!). But they don't seem to be amazingly sequential within the 10km squares (though strongly imply some sort of sequence existing).

Oh, and this only took me an hour of investigating before suddenly twigging it's grid references rather than clusters and that's why the second digit is always 6, 7 or 8!

Since I joined private practice in 2015, it looks like someone has finally amended the town centre following the changes.

I believe I used your list / what you gave CBRD rather than another source. I might have simplified it (can't remember) a little, but the C503 listing on the wiki is a mess of roads.

[rileyrob]

by the end of the year we should have the majority of Scottish C road routes listed on the Wiki.

I can now report that this is indeed the case. Out of the 32 Scottish Council areas, 27 have as much information as we have been able to find on the Wiki, I believe that for 22 of the councils this is as much information as the council hold.
The other 5 are as follows:
Aberdeen City - council list not located; routes detailed on Open Street Map, and appear to agree with Aberdeenshire system.
East Dunbartonshire - council list only numbers two of their C roads
West Dunbartonshire - council list only numbers half of their C roads
East Renfrewshire - only four C roads identified in council list
Edinburgh - routes of ZC roads generally not detailed in council list
For the vast majority of the routes in all 27 council areas, we need to expand the descriptions and add photos please.

The remaining council areas are:
Dumfries & Galloway - full council list found and I'll work through these in the new year

Dundee - no details found
Glasgow - council list does not identify classification or numbering of any routes
Renfrewshire - council list is a list of street names and classifications (no numbers), so difficult to even ascertain routes. I will try to piece it together into something on the Wiki.
South Lanarkshire - no details found.

[frediculous_biggs]

You're right, a FoI request may be the way forward!

It seems they don't have this data in any other format. Not particularly helpful.

[c2R]

You're right, a FoI request may be the way forward!

It seems they don't have this data in any other format. Not particularly helpful.

Yes, you're not wrong there... It's interesting the large disparity between the full clickable mapping some authorities offer versus the excel lists or nothing at all....

[Euan]

I have been following the progress of getting Scottish C roads listed on the wiki and I am aware that a small number of council areas have not made the details available online. However, I have E-mailed some councils requesting the required information while I've been gathering details on C roads myself and they have got back to me with a few lists. Hopefully, the following information might help in filling in some gaps:
Dundee:

C Class Roads.pdf

Most routes appear to be of the C2xx format. Shared with Angus and Perth & Kinross?

Edinburgh:

C Class Roads.xls

Spreadsheet with enough details to identify every route. Also explains the use of ZC numbers.

Glasgow:

C_Class Roads in Glasgow_GCC29875.xlsx

No numbers, but every street segment with C status is included in the spreadsheet.

More to follow...

[Euan]

Midlothian:

C Class RoadsML.pdf

As expected, the council list's information is indeed incomplete. This looks like all of them - shared almost perfectly with East Lothian and West Lothian.

Renfrewshire:

C Class Roads.xlsx

No numbers, but grid references for start and end points are included - could make it easier to identify some routes exactly.

I think it was pointed out on here some time ago that somebody appears to have written FOI requests to every local council in the UK asking for road lists. East Renfrewshire's street list clearly does not reference every C road in that area, but try here:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... _roads_125

One of the attachments contains a list of all classified routes (A, B and C) before moving onto the comprehensive list of streets.

I also have information on South Lanarkshire's C roads but the file is too large. See the following post for the different parts of the spreadsheet...

[Euan]

Now for South Lanarkshire. All of the attachments below were sent to me by South Lanarkshire Council originally as one file which was too large to post on here in one piece. As a result, I have had to break it into smaller parts and extract the C road information but hopefully it is still helpful to the wiki:

Main list:

South Lanarkshire C Roads Main.xlsx

Further details for Clydesdale and East Kilbride subdivisions:

South Lanarkshire C Roads Clydesdale and East Kilbride.xlsx

Further details for Hamilton and Rutherglen and Cambuslang subdivisions:

South Lanarkshire C Roads Hamilton Rutherglen and Cambuslang.xlsx

The numbers look as if they are based on some sort of Lanarkshire numbering system shared between north and south.

[Euan]

Hold on a minute, I don't think I have uploaded the attachments properly. Does anybody know what to do?
Thanks.

[rileyrob]

Hi Euan, Welcome to Sabre. Many thanks for your help with this. I had only previously found the second part of the East Renfrewshire list, from where I had gleaned a handful of numbers, but I was pretty sure there were several missing, so thanks for finding the rest of them. I will take a proper look next week probably.
As for the others, I'm not sure why your links aren't working - are you trying to link to files online or upload files from your own computer? If the former, then use the tags like you have for the East Renfrewshire link, otherwise you may need to upload to the wiki here: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/tools/upload/ - there is a 2MB file limit, and I'm not sure if there are copyright issues regarding these files. However, I'm sure we can work something out.
Thanks again for your help.

[Euan]

The files are from my computer originally sent to me via E-mail from the councils. I'll see what I can do.

[rileyrob]

Ok, we now have the full lists for Dundee and Edinburgh, thanks to Euan, and I will work on these in due course (unless anyone else wants to help!). We also have a list of Streets which are C-classified for Glasgow, and while it looks like it will be time consuming to make much sense of it I will see what I can do.
Hopefully Euan, or someone else, will be able to work some more magic and get the last couple of lists so we have a full house!

[c2R]

...and if anyone else (even if you've never written anything on the wiki before) is interested in picking a local authority and having a go, we can help with where to start and what to do (and even do the 'difficult' bit of setting up the initial template and gallery page for you).

You don't even necessarily have to know the local authority you pick, although of course that is an advantage for fleshing out the content.

[Euan]

Hopefully the links have worked this time. The details that I requested from the councils are below. Read my previous posts for brief descriptions of each one.

Dundee: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... _Roads.pdf

Edinburgh: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... _Roads.xls

Glasgow: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... 29875.xlsx

Midlothian: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... oadsML.pdf

Renfrewshire: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... Roads.xlsx

I will provide details for South Lanarkshire in due course.

[Euan]

As promised, here are the details for the class III roads in South Lanarkshire. I should say that the original Excel file that I received from the council consisted of a spreadsheet with a list of road names relating to each C number and a further four spreadsheets detailing absolutely every road segment in each of the four subdivisions of South Lanarkshire. As a result of the file being too large to upload on here, I have extracted the main spreadsheet from the file and only the relevant C road information from the detailed spreadsheets. I have split the detailed information into two spreadsheets of two subdivisions each.

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... _Main.xlsx (list of C roads with relatively basic information)

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... bride.xlsx (detailed C segments in Clydesdale and East Kilbride)
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... slang.xlsx (detailed C segments in Hamilton and Rutherglen and Cambuslang)

It would probably be easier to use the first list in order to identify all of the routes and to use the detailed lists for back up in case a route cannot be identified using the main list alone. Hopefully this information will help to get the C roads listed on the wiki. That should be just about all of the Scottish C roads available to analyse now.

[ellandback]

Well, I've had a crack at the nearest one to me, Calderdale's C567, mainly as a thank you for alerting me to its existence! It was my first effort at anything on the Wiki and I am happy to report to any other novices thinking about having a go that with a bit of trial and error (and judicious use of the preview facility) most of the functions are fairly intuitive. The 'add map' function didn't work out as I expected, and having read the user guide I realised I was confusing this with route box. That looked a bit complicated so I left it to come back to later. I now see however that someone else seems to have come along and done that for me, as well as adding tabs at the top and bottom of the article. To whoever that was, thank you.

I'll do a few more in due course if I get chance.

EDIT: It was c2R. Thank you also for your generous feedback which I have just seen.

[c2R]

Well, I've had a crack at the nearest one to me, Calderdale's C567, mainly as a thank you for alerting me to its existence! It was my first effort at anything on the Wiki and I am happy to report to any other novices thinking about having a go that with a bit of trial and error (and judicious use of the preview facility) most of the functions are fairly intuitive. The 'add map' function didn't work out as I expected, and having read the user guide I realised I was confusing this with route box. That looked a bit complicated so I left it to come back to later. I now see however that someone else seems to have come along and done that for me, as well as adding tabs at the top and bottom of the article. To whoever that was, thank you.

I'll do a few more in due course if I get chance.

Hello - it was me! Thank you for your interest and work. I've left you a message on the wiki talk page (I know it's a bit confusing to have a wiki talk page as well as PMs

I wrote:

Great first article! I've put the surrounding templates and things around it and also Calderdale's in general.

If you've got a good photo to illustrate it, or fancy getting one from geograph, feel free - there's an image attribute in the info box!

Setting up Calderdale is the most difficult bit, so that's done now. You should be able to make more just by copying and pasting the page.

The tracing is not too difficult when you get the hang of it...

1. make sure you're logged in to the wiki
2. click on SABRE Maps
3. Click to disable markers (they get in the way when tracing)
4. find the start of the road
5. Click on the trace link at the top
6. Now you can start your trace - just plot the route click by click. Note that your first click will give you coordinates at the bottom left - you can copy and paste these into the info box, so SE116199 is the end of the route
7. Once you've got to the end, click the save icon, and give it a name, I'd recommend C567_Calderdale
8. Now, in the template, you can add the route to the SABREMap parameter

<sabremap lat=53.683523 lon=-1.834219 zoom=11 trace=user/Ellandback/C567_Calderdale.osm />

If you need to add more than one trace to the same map, you can separate them with semicolons.

Other useful things:
Your talk page: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... Ellandback
Recent page changes: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... entChanges
Long list of map traces: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/osmtraces/list.php

Feel free to ask here, on a talk page, or by PM if you need any help whatsoever.
Cheers
chris

[c2R]

Duplicate C279 (Cambridgeshire)s discovered, in Cambridge and in Stibbington. Unlike the C290 (Cambridgeshire) it's definitely not part of the same former road with a downgraded hole in the middle. A second duplicate (having already found C190 (Cambridgeshire) edges Cambridgeshire into the lead again over Medway for duplicated C road numbers!

[B1040]

Is this a consequence of Huntingdonshire joining Cambridgeshire? When the A1 bypass was built they would have been in different counties!

[c2R]

Is this a consequence of Huntingdonshire joining Cambridgeshire? When the A1 bypass was built they would have been in different counties!

Perhaps, but I'm not sure - that the number is very different from the nearby C45 is interesting - I'd have expected they'd have similar numbers as they're geographically near one another... so it's quite a surprise that it is so different - the only explanation for that I think is that it was given this number later. Certainly C279 fits better in with the other C roads in that part of Cambridge, which seem to be in clusters around C190 and C280.

Also interesting is that there are a lot of missing Cxx numbers, whereas C1xx and C2xx seem much more complete. The numbering also doesn't appear to have a great deal of logic other than clusters of similar numbers tend to be nearby to one another, and broadly higher numbers are in the south but this doesn't always hold true.