Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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multiraider2
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by multiraider2 »

I, like Fleetline Phil, was taken on holiday to Bournemouth in 1968. I was three so I have only got flashes of memory of seeing them. However, like him, sadly I did not get to go on one. I also remember my dad's gearbox disintegrating at Alton on the way there, but that is another story. I suspect this will remain the only time I will see one on a live system.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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I used to live near the route of the No 58 bus from Wolverhampton to Dudley, run by Wolverhampton Corporation and painted green, and therefore known by Dudley residents as "the green bus", since all the other buses in the town were run by Midland Red (the clue there is in the name). This was a trolley up to 1968, along with many other routes in Wolverhampton including the No 4 which ran to Penn Fields near where my grandmother lived. My father took some pictures on the last day of the trolleys of the No 58 running through Sedgley, of course the crowds were out to line the streets. The trolleybus that normally runs in the Black Country Living Museum is painted green and shows No 58!

I do remember seeing trolleys still running in Walsall for a year or two after that, but never used one.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

Chris Bertram wrote:I used to live near the route of the No 58 bus from Wolverhampton to Dudley, run by Wolverhampton Corporation and painted green, and therefore known by Dudley residents as "the green bus", since all the other buses in the town were run by Midland Red (the clue there is in the name). This was a trolley up to 1968, along with many other routes in Wolverhampton including the No 4 which ran to Penn Fields near where my grandmother lived. My father took some pictures on the last day of the trolleys of the No 58 running through Sedgley, of course the crowds were out to line the streets. The trolleybus that normally runs in the Black Country Living Museum is painted green and shows No 58!

I do remember seeing trolleys still running in Walsall for a year or two after that, but never used one.
I started college in Wolverhampton in Oct '67 and don't remember any trolleybuses, not saying you're wrong, probably just not on the routes I used. I recall the green diesel buses, built by Guy in Wolverhampton, with folding entrance doors and staircase at the front which seemed very modern to a country hick like me, used to buses with an open platform at the rear.

I do remember seeing the blue Walsall trolleybuses on a trip across the Midlands and as I was based in Derby, their trolleybuses as well.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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Ruperts Trooper wrote:I started college in Wolverhampton in Oct '67 and don't remember any trolleybuses, not saying you're wrong, probably just not on the routes I used. I recall the green diesel buses, built by Guy in Wolverhampton, with folding entrance doors and staircase at the front which seemed very modern to a country hick like me, used to buses with an open platform at the rear.

I do remember seeing the blue Walsall trolleybuses on a trip across the Midlands and as I was based in Derby, their trolleybuses as well.
According to "A History of Wolverhampton Transport Volume 2 1929-1969" by Paul Addenbrooke, the trolleybuses on route 58 finished in March 1967 so you would have just missed them when you went to Wolvo.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by Chris Bertram »

Worcestershire Wolf wrote:
Ruperts Trooper wrote:I started college in Wolverhampton in Oct '67 and don't remember any trolleybuses, not saying you're wrong, probably just not on the routes I used. I recall the green diesel buses, built by Guy in Wolverhampton, with folding entrance doors and staircase at the front which seemed very modern to a country hick like me, used to buses with an open platform at the rear.

I do remember seeing the blue Walsall trolleybuses on a trip across the Midlands and as I was based in Derby, their trolleybuses as well.
According to "A History of Wolverhampton Transport Volume 2 1929-1969" by Paul Addenbrooke, the trolleybuses on route 58 finished in March 1967 so you would have just missed them when you went to Wolvo.
Yes, sorry, I got the year wrong. We'd moved to Sedgley a couple of years earlier so I still remember them well even though I was a nipper at the time.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by fras »

Just got a very nice book on the Belfast trolleybuses, (www.trolleybooks.co.uk), and the poem about the one-way scheme in the city centre is in there and the enormous amount of wiring needed to keep the trolleys running efficiently ! I was right about the million miles of wire but it also has "one thousand poles" in it as well. Some very nice colour photos too as this system lasted until 1968.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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Trams and trolleybuses in Zurich, incl.double-articulated trolleybuses ! The livery is a bit dull though. Just look at the overhead junctions for trams and trolleybuses. All working seamlessly as one would expect from the Swiss. Zurich trams are metre gauge, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-cXVwJz1oY

Enjoy !!
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by Chris Bertram »

Am in Vancouver. They have trolleybuses, all single decker. Actually, on W 41st Avenue where we're staying, the road has wires up for trolleys, but all the buses here have been diesel buses. Go figure.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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Chris Bertram wrote:Am in Vancouver. They have trolleybuses, all single decker. Actually, on W 41st Avenue where we're staying, the road has wires up for trolleys, but all the buses here have been diesel buses. Go figure.
According to this website, trolleys on 41st street no longer run it's now diesel buses that run all the way to UBC. NO reason why trolleybus wiring couldn't be extended, but new electricity supply substations may be necessary and the cost is not supportable at present. Normally if a route is abandoned, the overhead is removed quite quickly, so there may be hope yet.

http://vancouver.trolleybus.net/system.htm
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by fras »

Milan would seem to be retaining their trolleybus network if this news is anything to go by: -

http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-b ... tract.html

These new buses can travel up to 15km off the wires using batteries. Not a bad order, 80 buses !
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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fras wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 22:42 Trams and trolleybuses in Zurich, incl.double-articulated trolleybuses ! The livery is a bit dull though. Just look at the overhead junctions for trams and trolleybuses. All working seamlessly as one would expect from the Swiss. Zurich trams are metre gauge, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-cXVwJz1oY

Enjoy !!
And -- to add to the complexity -- look at the S-Bahn train which passes under the trolleybus overhead wires at the level crossing seen here: https://youtu.be/u-cXVwJz1oY?t=3m. This train is not only dual-voltage but has two separate pantographs with different offsets!
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by Glenn A »

I was driving into Newcastle on Wednesday and where the roundabout now was, until 1988 when it was built over, the terminus for the trolleybuses at Denton Square. Later, this was used as a terminus for buses and had two trolleybus pylons converted into streetlighting for the bus stop. No trace remains now as it's part of the Denton roundabout.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by B9127 »

Think of the savings that Edinburgh could have made in infrastructure costs by using artic trolleybuses instead of trams - my mother was from Glasgow and hated them as they were virtually silent and she said they caused pedestrian accidents because of there silent approach
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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roadtester wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 18:36 I like the idea but I think we'll go straight to battery buses, which are already very common in China, rather than reviving trolleys:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/29/chi ... ric-buses/
I certainly hope so! Every European city I have visited where trolleybuses are in operation, you have a mass of overhead wires which are unsightly (and make it almost impossible to take decent photographs of the architecture!). Britain hardly has the most attractive cities in Europe, but we don't need to make anything worse by having cables above every main thoroughfare.

When she was a student in Cagliari, my ex-wife found that using the trolleybuses to get around town could be prove highly problematic when they became detached from the wires, because they can't be driven far at all without the power connection! The result was that the buses could become stranded in the road only a very short distance from where they needed to be in order to pick up the power supply and continue their route. Many times she remembered being transferred to another (often diesel) bus, while the one she'd been on had to wait for somebody to come from the depot with a tow truck to pull the standed vehicle back under the cables.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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Owain wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:59
roadtester wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 18:36 I like the idea but I think we'll go straight to battery buses, which are already very common in China, rather than reviving trolleys:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/29/chi ... ric-buses/
I certainly hope so! Every European city I have visited where trolleybuses are in operation, you have a mass of overhead wires which are unsightly (and make it almost impossible to take decent photographs of the architecture!). Britain hardly has the most attractive cities in Europe, but we don't need to make anything worse by having cables above every main thoroughfare.

When she was a student in Cagliari, my ex-wife found that using the trolleybuses to get around town could be prove highly problematic when they became detached from the wires, because they can't be driven far at all without the power connection! The result was that the buses could become stranded in the road only a very short distance from where they needed to be in order to pick up the power supply and continue their route. Many times she remembered being transferred to another (often diesel) bus, while the one she'd been on had to wait for somebody to come from the depot with a tow truck to pull the standed vehicle back under the cables.
So trams are out as well ?

I used the trolleybuses in Derby in the years before they were withdrawn and apart from being 1930's basic inside they were fine - if they came off the wire there was a long pole on board to re-attach it so never being stranded.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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Ruperts Trooper wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:09
Owain wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:59
roadtester wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 18:36 I like the idea but I think we'll go straight to battery buses, which are already very common in China, rather than reviving trolleys:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/29/chi ... ric-buses/
I certainly hope so! Every European city I have visited where trolleybuses are in operation, you have a mass of overhead wires which are unsightly (and make it almost impossible to take decent photographs of the architecture!). Britain hardly has the most attractive cities in Europe, but we don't need to make anything worse by having cables above every main thoroughfare.

When she was a student in Cagliari, my ex-wife found that using the trolleybuses to get around town could be prove highly problematic when they became detached from the wires, because they can't be driven far at all without the power connection! The result was that the buses could become stranded in the road only a very short distance from where they needed to be in order to pick up the power supply and continue their route. Many times she remembered being transferred to another (often diesel) bus, while the one she'd been on had to wait for somebody to come from the depot with a tow truck to pull the standed vehicle back under the cables.
So trams are out as well ?

I used the trolleybuses in Derby in the years before they were withdrawn and apart from being 1930's basic inside they were fine - if they came off the wire there was a long pole on board to re-attach it so never being stranded.
I guess a certain number of trams on very strategic routes would be okay... The Manchester and Edinburgh trams look very smart, and because they're on rails I guess there's no danger of becoming detached. And as the Manchester and Edinburgh trams only travel down certain strategic routes in those cities, the ugly effect of the wires is limited to those areas.

The thing about the buses on the Continent is that many cities seem to have gone 'wholesale', meaning that every street with a bus route has ugly overhead wires. They have an especially unpleasant aspect in large squares; Cagliari is amass with overhead wires!

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember sitting in a café watching with amusement as Cagliari bus staff attempted to reconnect a stranded bus using a very long pole. I think it was here, with predictably devastating effect on the flow of traffic.

I think part of the problem in Italy is that many of the streets in city centres are cobbled, and therefore much bumpier than the tarmac we tend to use. This might increase the likelihood of the buses losing contact with their wires, making it such a frequent occurrence!
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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Owain wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:59When she was a student in Cagliari, my ex-wife found that using the trolleybuses to get around town could be prove highly problematic when they became detached from the wires, because they can't be driven far at all without the power connection! The result was that the buses could become stranded in the road only a very short distance from where they needed to be in order to pick up the power supply and continue their route. Many times she remembered being transferred to another (often diesel) bus, while the one she'd been on had to wait for somebody to come from the depot with a tow truck to pull the standed vehicle back under the cables.
That makes me wonder what the Cagliari trolleybus drivers get up to.

In Russia, from personal experience, trolleybuses get detached from the wires on a fairly regular basis. The driver is issued with a long pole which he'll use to reconnect the pantograph thingy to the wires. It never usually takes very long.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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The Rome trolleybuses swap from battery to wires en-route as the centre is not wired, these start at Porta Pia, just outside the city wall. The depot is not wired and is of-route too. I do have my doubts on battery-only buses. The battery has tp provide traction heating lighting and probably air conditioning, so some charging during the day will be needed. Time spent charging during the operational day is time not earning money. At least with buses like those in Rome, the charging takes place whilst the vehicle is on the wired section. There are no complex junctions on the Rome system, and the overhead is fairly discrete in appearance.
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

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fras wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:47 The Rome trolleybuses swap from battery to wires en-route as the centre is not wired, these start at Porta Pia, just outside the city wall. The depot is not wired and is of-route too. I do have my doubts on battery-only buses. The battery has tp provide traction heating lighting and probably air conditioning, so some charging during the day will be needed. Time spent charging during the operational day is time not earning money. At least with buses like those in Rome, the charging takes place whilst the vehicle is on the wired section. There are no complex junctions on the Rome system, and the overhead is fairly discrete in appearance.
Prague has joined the ranks of trolleybus operators, or more accurately rejoined as they had run quite a large system between 1936 and 1972. After trials started in October 2017 (I think), in July 2018 route 58 began regular operation in the NE of the city between Palmovka and Letňany metro stations, using one vehicle on an hourly frequency. It is in fact very much a battery bus, as there is a charging station at Palmovka, under which the vehicle sits for around thirty minutes out of each hour. The wires are provided on only around 1km out of the 5km route, this being the section climbing the long hill up to Prosek which would produce most drain on the batteries. Last week I got chance to try an uphill journey, and the booms are raised to the wires automatically in the layby at the stop at Kundratka. All the bus stop plates have been suitably adapted to show a trolleybus as well, I think even on the stretches where there are no wires.

The intention is to convert route 140, which follows the same route but extends to Čakovice and Miškovice and operates every 7/8 minutes. I am not sure if any further stretches are intended to be wired or any additional charging stations built for this. The one at Palmovka has been supplied from the adjacent tramway infrastructure, which is one justification for the scheme.

I had a further surprise later in the afternoon when I returned to Palmovka to see a smart single decker under the charging station at Palmovka. It was showing a destination for route 109, and indeed operated a journey on that normally diesel route a few minutes later. There is a reference to this on DPP's website here in the final paragraph.

For such a hilly city, I would think the reintroduction of trolleybuses to Prague would be a hugely sensible idea. Apparently they were phased out because the supply of diesel was more reliable than that of electricity, but hopefully we are long past such privations now. It is also sadly true that on the outskirts of the city there are many places where there is no chance of a few poles and wires making the aesthetics any worse than they are now :( !
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Re: Anybody for trolleybuses ?

Post by Octaviadriver »

As previously mentioned, trolleybuses that become detached from the overhead wires are usually reattached quickly as the driver is used to carrying out this operation. The trolleybus below that I photographed in Vilnius, Lithuania was quickly reattached and on its way.
Picture 004.jpg
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