Anybody for trolleybuses ?

[fras]

There are now no trolleybus routes operating in the UK currently, and the planned route in Leeds has been abandoned. Readers who want to see and ride on a trolleybus can visit the following museums: -

East Anglia Transport Museum at Carlton Coalville
http://eatransportmuseum.co.uk/index.html

The Trolleybus Museum at Sandtoft
http://www.sandtoft.org.uk/

Black Country Living Museum
https://www.bclm.co.uk/

A trolleybus circuit is under construction at the Beamish museum in County Durham, as part of a £22 million expansion scheme to create a 1950s townscape, but a lot of overhead has already been installed where the existing trams run. I believe a couple of trolleybuses from systems in the North East are already at a depot on site.

For visits to Sandtoft, which has the largest individual collection, it is necessary to find out when the museum is open as it does not open as regularly and frequently as the other two. It is also a fair trek out into the fen-like levels east of Doncaster if you don't live near there. It will next be open on Easter Saturday 31st March 2018, and is an absolute MUST VISIT for those of you who remember and love this very elegant form of transport. On an open day, the museum try to have as many trolleybuses in service together as they can, without overloading the electricity supply, of course !

Almost all trolleybus systems in the UK started off as conversions of tramways, and as the towns expanded new routes were very often opened up where there had never been trams. Only one system was installed afresh with no tramway precursor, the Teeside Railless Traction Board system which installed a system in 1919. This system, although small, was very long lived and only ceased operation in 1971, just behind Bradford, the last operator in the UK.

Of the systems, the largest in the UK and, indeed, the largest in the world, was London. Like other systems, this was a conversion by London Transport of the enormous London tramway system operated by several companies and also the London County Council. Unlike many provincial systems, London trolleybus routes followed the tramroutes and there were no extensions ever built. The London system would have been even larger if the remaining tramway routes had been converted after WW2. At the end of WW2 these ran mostly in South London, but there were also a few routes based on the Kingsway Tramway Subway that ran to the north. London Transport even modified a couple of trolleybuses for running tests through the subway, and found clearances were too tight, and conversion would need extensive alterations to the subway. In the end, the remaining routes were replaced by diesel buses, and only a few years later, this fate befell the trolleybuses with the final routes in West London and Kingston ceasing in 1962. Once London decided to abandon "the trolleys", essentially it became uneconomic for the manufacturers to continue producing them at a price competitive with diesel buses. Whilst the operating costs of trolleybuses are lower than diesels, the overhead wire and electricity supply infrastructure has its own costs not borne by diesel buses.

The London fleet at its peak was around 1800 vehicles in size with some routes having a 2 minute service in peak hours. Most other systems were less than 200 vehicles. The only system installed in the island of Ireland was Belfast, and this was the largest after London with a fleet size of 245 vehicles. It is probably the only system to be included in a local folk song about Belfast following the installation of a very complex overhead installation in central Belfast designed to speed up trolleybus traffic. This worked by minimising the number of frog switches a trolleybus had to make as it passed along its route. One of the lines at the end of the song was "and a million miles of wire" !!

Here is a Wikipedia link giving a list of the systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ed_Kingdom

My personal favourite system is Bournemouth. There cannot have been a more beautiful livery than that in Bournemouth which was yellow with maroon banding, also applied to their diesel buses of course. The trolleybuses themselves were also very unusual in that they all had two staircases, one at the front and one at the rear with a small door at the front which seemed to be out of use. This was originally designed to speed up boarding at busy times, and I can remember on holiday in 1955 taking a trip from Southbourne into Bournemouth with my parents and insisting on going upstairs. When we arrived in Bournemouth I was the only passenger that used the front staircase !

[Octaviadriver]

Growing up in the 1950s and 1960s, I have many memories of trolleybuses, though spending the majority of the time living in Market Harborough in Leicestershire, I never used one regularly.

My grandparents lived on Cromwell Road in London and when we drove down to visit them (pre M1), we always went round Shepard's Bush where there always trolleybuses turning as they went no further east at that point. They were my maternal grandparents and my father would drop my mother and younger sister off with them and then take me on a trolleybus or tube for a special treat!

My father travelled around when he was working making various calls at factories in the Midlands and I sometimes went with him in the school holidays. I especially enjoyed it when he was going to Nottingham and Derby and I could see see their trolleybuses.

It saddened me to see them all disappearing one after another and I can't help but think that they would be very popular now if they were still running as they're quiet and pollution free (at least in the cities). I wish I'd had a digital camera at the time as I'd have thousands of photos to reminisce all the various places I'd seen them.

I was working as an accountant in Leicester at the start of the 1970s and I can remember preparing accounts for a scrap metal dealer who had the contract to acquire the overhead wires etc from the Walsall system that closed in 1970. IIRC, its days were numbered when the M6 was built and cut the system in two.

There are still many towns and cities in the rest of the world with trolleybuses and I've ridden on a few of them, though they're nearly all single decker, whereas ours were nearly all double decker.

[fras]

I forgot to mention the Bournemouth trolleybus turntable. Yes, railways weren't the only places where turntables were installed ! Having said that the number of places on trolleybus networks was very small. The turntable at Bournemouth was actually installed at the end of the route to Christchurch. I once saw it as a child, but only decades later did I go to look for it to find it had been preserved. It's now part of the car park for a block of flats built on the site of the hotel that used to stand there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _turntable

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bourn ... UWsY13KACM:

[Glenn A]

Newcastle had trolley buses until 1966, and the western terminus at Denton Square( now the Denton roundabout) lived on as a bus terminus and turning point until 1988 when the roundabout was built over it. I think the eastern limit was Jesmond Dene Rd, as the entrance to the road was fairly wide and the converted trolleybus pylon street lights ended here.

[Piatkow]

There are some trolleybus terminii in London that have survived road remodelling. Two in north east London that come to mind are:
https://goo.gl/maps/faG2grdNdUJ2
https://goo.gl/maps/DvK7s9rhnmR2

[Glenn A]

Getting rid of the trolleybuses in Newcastle was a big mistake as they were quiet, non polluting and accelerated faster than the diesel buses that replaced them. I know they were getting on in years and were more restricted than diesel buses in where they could go, but they were popular and should have been replaced.

[roadtester]

I like the idea but I think we'll go straight to battery buses, which are already very common in China, rather than reviving trolleys:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/29/chi ... ric-buses/

[Ruperts Trooper]

I like the idea but I think we'll go straight to battery buses, which are already very common in China, rather than reviving trolleys:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/29/chi ... ric-buses/

A combination system might work very well - next-generation batteries for city centre and suburb use with overhead wires installed at the outskirts to allow services to be extended beyond their battery range along main arterial routes - the additional weight/cost of part-time poles on the roof wouldn't be very high and would allow recharging on the move at low cost.

[roadtester]

I think it may depend on the existing infrastructure. I suspect that it may still be worth doing new trolley buses in areas that already have the infrastructure - in fact they may get a new lease of life because the development and large scale production of battery buses may make it possible to produce trolley-style derivatives minus batteries but with the overhead electrical gear much more economically.

[Johnathan404]

Was the infrastructure not installed at UWE to allow a battery-powered service to operate into Bristol?

[KeithW]

I forgot to mention the Bournemouth trolleybus turntable. Yes, railways weren't the only places where turntables were installed ! Having said that the number of places on trolleybus networks was very small. The turntable at Bournemouth was actually installed at the end of the route to Christchurch. I once saw it as a child, but only decades later did I go to look for it to find it had been preserved. It's now part of the car park for a block of flats built on the site of the hotel that used to stand there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _turntable

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bourn ... UWsY13KACM:

There were turning circles and reversing points on the TRTB system. It was still fairly common for the pickup to come off the wires while they were turning though.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/697424692265191630/
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/508062401703311241/

All of these are now under the dualled A66.

[ANiceEnglishman]

Was the infrastructure not installed at UWE to allow a battery-powered service to operate into Bristol?

Yes, though underground rather than overhead.

http://www.eauc.org.uk/electric-hybrid_ ... ing_to_uwe

Two revolutionary virtual electric buses were recently launched in Bristol. First West of England are introducing the state-of-the-art low emission buses in partnership with Department for Transport, Bristol City Council and University of the West of England (UWE).

The buses use Geo-Fencing GPS technology to run on pure electric mode in areas of low air quality, producing zero emissions. The small diesel engine only runs in areas of better air quality and simply charges the electric engine. This technology is revolutionary, there are only five in the UK, two in Bristol and three in London on a trial basis. Engineers and scientists will examine how the bus performs and crucially their environmental impact.

These smooth and quiet buses will turn heads in their striking blue colour scheme and ‘electricity’ branding.

The buses also have a unique way of charging. Once they reach UWE’s Frenchay Campus (the terminus of their route) a special plate in the ground will charge the buses wirelessly.

James Freeman, Managing Director of First West of England said: “Bristol is the perfect place to trial technology like this. During the Green Capital year in 2015 we trialled a Bio-Methane powered ‘poo bus’ so it is great that we now have another exciting trial.”

“These buses will make a massive impact to air quality as they spend a huge part of the day running on pure electric mode (almost like a tram without rails), meaning that in areas (such as the City Centre) where pollution is a problem, these buses will quite literally be a breath of fresh air.”

The buses will feature on Service 72 which runs from City Centre to UWE’s Frenchay Campus via Whiteladies Road & Gloucester Road. The bus will run in full electric mode throughout the City Centre, the diesel engine automatically turns on to recharge the batteries at the start of Whiteladies Road where the air quality improves. Once the buses reach the more polluted Gloucester Road they will again revert to all-electric mode.

George Ferguson, Mayor of Bristol said: “I am delighted that we have been able to launch this cutting edge technology in Bristol, as the first city outside of London to do so.

“This adds to Bristol’s growing reputation as a laboratory for change and an environmental innovator. These clean tech vehicles will help to reduce pollution and improve the health of the city, and are part of the continuing impact of our highly successful year as European Green Capital 2015.”

“My goal is for Bristol to be one of the healthiest cities in the world and that has to start with us breathing clean air.”

“I am confident this trial of new technology will pave the way for the future of electric buses in Bristol and beyond, adding to the many new sustainable transport initiatives that are currently taking place across the city.”

The buses are expected to enter service at the end of January.

Source: First Group

[roadtester]

I forgot to mention the Bournemouth trolleybus turntable. Yes, railways weren't the only places where turntables were installed ! Having said that the number of places on trolleybus networks was very small. The turntable at Bournemouth was actually installed at the end of the route to Christchurch. I once saw it as a child, but only decades later did I go to look for it to find it had been preserved. It's now part of the car park for a block of flats built on the site of the hotel that used to stand there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _turntable

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bourn ... UWsY13KACM:

There were turning circles and reversing points on the TRTB system. It was still fairly common for the pickup to come off the wires while they were turning though.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/697424692265191630/
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/508062401703311241/

All of these are now under the dualled A66.

I'm guessing if trolley buses were revived, some of these complicated bits of the infrastructure could be avoided by having a limited ability to run on batteries for tuning around or for sections that would be difficult to wire. That might simplify things quite a bit.

[Isleworth1961]

I'm guessing if trolley buses were revived, some of these complicated bits of the infrastructure could be avoided by having a limited ability to run on batteries for tuning around or for sections that would be difficult to wire. That might simplify things quite a bit.

Some London trolleybuses did have back up batteries for just that. There was a (true) story that a trolleybus on driver training I think, was (unofficially) driven off the south London system, then on battery power onto the Woolwich Ferry, then off again the other side at Silvertown, to connect with the wires on that side. All under the supervision of a very confident inspector who knew how far The buses could go on batteries (which was not very far, maybe only a few hundred yards if the batteries were good.) The staff north of the river couldn't believe how a south London Bus was working north of the river!
It's going to take me some time to find my book with the story... not tonight though!

[fras]

I forgot to mention the Bournemouth trolleybus turntable. Yes, railways weren't the only places where turntables were installed ! Having said that the number of places on trolleybus networks was very small. The turntable at Bournemouth was actually installed at the end of the route to Christchurch. I once saw it as a child, but only decades later did I go to look for it to find it had been preserved. It's now part of the car park for a block of flats built on the site of the hotel that used to stand there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _turntable

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bourn ... UWsY13KACM:

There were turning circles and reversing points on the TRTB system. It was still fairly common for the pickup to come off the wires while they were turning though.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/697424692265191630/
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/508062401703311241/

All of these are now under the dualled A66.

I'm guessing if trolley buses were revived, some of these complicated bits of the infrastructure could be avoided by having a limited ability to run on batteries for tuning around or for sections that would be difficult to wire. That might simplify things quite a bit.

Rome trolleybuses ! I have travelled on them on battery and wired sections. The project was much criticised for its expense. Clearly as an early adopter Rome paid the price !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Rome

The depot is off the wires so all movements between there and the one route are battery powered. There was to be a 2nd route, but I think the expense of the first one scared the ATAC authorities so much it's never been built

[fras]

Lots of info on this site

http://www.tbus.org.uk/home.htm

[Glenn A]

The turning circles on Denton Square and Jesmond Dene Rd in Newcastle were wired and the evidence was the converted pylons in the turning circle. It's a shame they were scrapped as the diesel buses that replaced them were polluting and noisy.

[KeithW]

I'm guessing if trolley buses were revived, some of these complicated bits of the infrastructure could be avoided by having a limited ability to run on batteries for tuning around or for sections that would be difficult to wire. That might simplify things quite a bit.

Technology has moved on hugely since the era of the old trolleybuses. They typically used a 600 v DC power supply with relatively simple and not very efficient DC motors. This made battery installations using lead acid technology heavy and bulky. Topping up all those cells was also a real pain in the butt as they would be mounted under the floor. With modern AC traction motors driven through solid state inverters and lithium ion batteries combined with better electric power pickups new build systems could be much more flexible and benefit from regenerative braking. Alternatively on a number of systems such as that in Philadelphia new trolleybuses were fitted with small hybrid diesel-electric power units for off-wire movement.

[KeithW]

The turning circles on Denton Square and Jesmond Dene Rd in Newcastle were wired and the evidence was the converted pylons in the turning circle. It's a shame they were scrapped as the diesel buses that replaced them were polluting and noisy.

Trouble is by the time the last systems were scrapped no new build trolleybuses were available and no spares had been manufactured for over 20 years. In the case of the TRTB system the newest bus was built in 1950 and 16 of the fleet dated back to 1917/1918. The system was only kept running as the management had a policy of buying up old units for spares as other systems closed. By the 1970's it was clear that the system was unsustainable. Not only spares for the buses were hard to find but they had just about run out of parts such as insulators and pickups for the overhead wires.

[c2R]

I've added the following page to our wiki, which mainly links to wikipedia at the moment: Trolleybus_system

Clearly, we're not interested in replicated what wikipedia have, but the systems themselves are an important part of the UK's urban road history.