Paradise Circus

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Truvelo
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Paradise Circus

Post by Truvelo » Fri Jul 24, 2020 00:01

Is this junction defunct just because the roundabout has gone? A quick look on GSV shows this new sign bearing the junction name. This is common with other circuses in the city which have become traffic lights but retain their original names.
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by c2R » Fri Jul 24, 2020 08:37

Truvelo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 00:01
Is this junction defunct just because the roundabout has gone? A quick look on GSV shows this new sign bearing the junction name. This is common with other circuses in the city which have become traffic lights but retain their original names.
I was giving that some thought - I might un-defunct it - or is it now simply called Paradise without the circus bit? The sign seems to indicate it's still called circus though, if thats correct!
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Chris5156 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 08:40

Truvelo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 00:01
Is this junction defunct just because the roundabout has gone? A quick look on GSV shows this new sign bearing the junction name. This is common with other circuses in the city which have become traffic lights but retain their original names.
A junction doesn't have to be a roundabout to be called a "circus". Originally the name just meant a junction in a city where the buildings had been pushed away from the corners to create a bigger space. Oxford Circus in London, for example, has never been a roundabout.

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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Bryn666 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 13:16

Chris5156 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 08:40
Truvelo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 00:01
Is this junction defunct just because the roundabout has gone? A quick look on GSV shows this new sign bearing the junction name. This is common with other circuses in the city which have become traffic lights but retain their original names.
A junction doesn't have to be a roundabout to be called a "circus". Originally the name just meant a junction in a city where the buildings had been pushed away from the corners to create a bigger space. Oxford Circus in London, for example, has never been a roundabout.
Indeed, Darwen Circus has never been a roundabout either, although we did propose at one stage to make it into one...

Paradise Circus is still Paradise Circus, it's a reformed junction not a defunct one.
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Truvelo » Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:01

Bryn666 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 13:16
...it's a reformed junction not a defunct one.
That's a very polite way of putting it. I'm a bit less tactful :roll:
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by c2R » Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:06

Thanks all, I've un-defuncted the junction on the wiki; the article does need some work to fully describe what the junction now comprises as well as some further historical information. Truvelo, could you draw a map in the style of the alternative proposal one to indicate what was there until recently?

NB - I'll leave Friday Bridge as being defunct though, as that definitely is no longer there (nearby apartment buildings don't count!).
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Truvelo » Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:43

c2R wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:06
Truvelo, could you draw a map in the style of the alternative proposal one to indicate what was there until recently?
That will be no problem. I'm just working on alternative layouts for M40 J15 at the moment. When I've uploaded these I'll start on Paradise Circus.
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by c2R » Fri Jul 24, 2020 15:55

Truvelo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:43
c2R wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:06
Truvelo, could you draw a map in the style of the alternative proposal one to indicate what was there until recently?
That will be no problem. I'm just working on alternative layouts for M40 J15 at the moment. When I've uploaded these I'll start on Paradise Circus.
Thank you - it seems the sort of article we should really improve, as there is so much history about it in such a relatively short amount of time. I didn't realise, for example, that there was an entire canal that was there, and then wasn't again! And I got there (Friday Bridge), from the nearby Saturday bridge, which shares a name with a bridge in Lincolnshire in Holbeach parish, which is where I'm currently working on Class III road lists.... the wiki is definitely a forever project!
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Sabrista » Fri Jul 24, 2020 16:24

Probably one of the most misnamed places ever.

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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by c2R » Fri Jul 24, 2020 16:41

Sabrista wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 16:24
Probably one of the most misnamed places ever.

Serena
It was a giant building site when I was last there...
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Fenlander » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:22

c2R wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 15:55
Truvelo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:43
c2R wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:06
Truvelo, could you draw a map in the style of the alternative proposal one to indicate what was there until recently?
That will be no problem. I'm just working on alternative layouts for M40 J15 at the moment. When I've uploaded these I'll start on Paradise Circus.
Thank you - it seems the sort of article we should really improve, as there is so much history about it in such a relatively short amount of time. I didn't realise, for example, that there was an entire canal that was there, and then wasn't again! And I got there (Friday Bridge), from the nearby Saturday bridge, which shares a name with a bridge in Lincolnshire in Holbeach parish, which is where I'm currently working on Class III road lists.... the wiki is definitely a forever project!
Friday Bridge being a village south of Wisbech, not too far away from Holbeach.

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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by c2R » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:40

Fenlander wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:22
c2R wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 15:55
Truvelo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 14:43

That will be no problem. I'm just working on alternative layouts for M40 J15 at the moment. When I've uploaded these I'll start on Paradise Circus.
Thank you - it seems the sort of article we should really improve, as there is so much history about it in such a relatively short amount of time. I didn't realise, for example, that there was an entire canal that was there, and then wasn't again! And I got there (Friday Bridge), from the nearby Saturday bridge, which shares a name with a bridge in Lincolnshire in Holbeach parish, which is where I'm currently working on Class III road lists.... the wiki is definitely a forever project!
Friday Bridge being a village south of Wisbech, not too far away from Holbeach.
It certainly is; and also was a bridge in Birmingham that was buried by Paradise Friday Bridge (Birmingham)
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From the SABRE Wiki: Friday Bridge (Birmingham) :


Friday Bridge carried Summer Row, which was the A457 at the time, over the Newhall Branch Canal, in Birmingham.

The canal no longer exists, and nor does the bridge - the site where it stood is now buried underneath Paradise Circus. It is called Friday Bridge for the same reason the nearby Saturday Bridge was called Saturday Bridge - it was the day when canal workers received their wages at the bridge.


... Read More

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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Truvelo » Sun Jul 26, 2020 21:46

The last time I was there the central library was being demolished. What a sad loss of a fine example of brutalist architecture.

Anyway, I've added a map of the former layout to the Wiki article.
Attachments
paradis.jpg
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by c2R » Sun Jul 26, 2020 22:27

Thank you, that's perfect.
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Truvelo » Mon Jul 27, 2020 23:20

I've added another map showing the earliest known proposal. I wonder how many more designs were produced?
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by fras » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:40

Truvelo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 21:46
The last time I was there the central library was being demolished. What a sad loss of a fine example of brutalist architecture.

Anyway, I've added a map of the former layout to the Wiki article.
This was being built when I first came to Birmingham to work in about 1971/2. The original design for Paradise Circus was never finished. The School of Music got its portland stone facing, but the library never did. Instead the bare concrete was bush-hammered to a sort of finish but it never looked particularly good. The bus station underneath never opened, and any buildings at the north end never got built. A real mess, frankly, and what's there now is totally undistinguished. It seems impossible for Birmingham City Council to actually get anything built that is memorable, they seem to knock half of the city centre down every 30 years or so.

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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Truvelo » Thu Dec 24, 2020 19:50

fras wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:40
The bus station underneath never opened...
Does that explain why there was a series of bus stops at the north end of the junction?
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Re: Paradise Circus

Post by Chris Bertram » Thu Dec 24, 2020 20:30

Truvelo wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 19:50
fras wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:40
The bus station underneath never opened...
Does that explain why there was a series of bus stops at the north end of the junction?
That was part of a grander plan as described. The main bus station would have been on the east side of the circus, and exited onto the outside lane of the roundabout. Remember that the speed limit was 40 on the ring road, for years, even after the failed bus station exit had been replaced by a garden, there was a 40 sign at the corner where the merge would have been.
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