I was browsing through the wiki and stumbled across the articles for the roads B8085, B8086 and B8087 on the island of Colonsay off Scotland. However, zooming into the OpenStreetMap mapbox revealed that these roads are marked as tertiary (or in one case, unclassified) with no numbers. Going onto the full OSM website and querying features showed that they had been downgraded, with the text "Colonsay no longer has any classified roads". Could anyone confirm the downgrading, and if the roads have indeed been downgraded, change the routebox to the black former route colour.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
The B8085 is a short road at the southern end of the Isle of Colonsay.
The route starts around a mile west of the Ferry Pier in the village of Scalasaig, the island's biggest settlement. The junction with the B8086 is completely unsigned, and the road heads off south without even a give way line. A short straight leads to a brief climb
On mobile at moment or would check myself, but does osm have anything helpful like a source for that note. Otherwise it could be as helpful as someone noting that the numbers aren't on signs.
c2R wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:58
On mobile at moment or would check myself, but does osm have anything helpful like a source for that note. Otherwise it could be as helpful as someone noting that the numbers aren't on signs.
It doesn't, which is why I asked this question instead of marking the roads as defunct immediately. Also, one of the roads was, at one point, marked as both "highway=tertiary" and the completely incorrect number "A8087" (It was originally an A-road, but it was the A871). This does suggest that the OSM mapping in the area is rather questionable.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
dereer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:40
I was browsing through the wiki and stumbled across the articles for the roads B8085, B8086 and B8087 on the island of Colonsay off Scotland. However, zooming into the OpenStreetMap mapbox revealed that these roads are marked as tertiary (or in one case, unclassified) with no numbers. Going onto the full OSM website and querying features showed that they had been downgraded, with the text "Colonsay no longer has any classified roads". Could anyone confirm the downgrading, and if the roads have indeed been downgraded, change the routebox to the black former route colour.
Argyll and Bute Council’s list of roads shows the B8085, B8086 and B8087 numbers still in use on Colonsay (they’re on page 108):
I presume that this is the most up to date version of the list as the website currently links to this version. My own take on it is that the three main routes on the island are indeed still of B class and that the OSM interpretation of the roads is incorrect.
The B8085 is a short road at the southern end of the Isle of Colonsay.
The route starts around a mile west of the Ferry Pier in the village of Scalasaig, the island's biggest settlement. The junction with the B8086 is completely unsigned, and the road heads off south without even a give way line. A short straight leads to a brief climb
dereer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:40
I was browsing through the wiki and stumbled across the articles for the roads B8085, B8086 and B8087 on the island of Colonsay off Scotland. However, zooming into the OpenStreetMap mapbox revealed that these roads are marked as tertiary (or in one case, unclassified) with no numbers. Going onto the full OSM website and querying features showed that they had been downgraded, with the text "Colonsay no longer has any classified roads". Could anyone confirm the downgrading, and if the roads have indeed been downgraded, change the routebox to the black former route colour.
Argyll and Bute Council’s list of roads shows the B8085, B8086 and B8087 numbers still in use on Colonsay (they’re on page 108):
I presume that this is the most up to date version of the list as the website currently links to this version. My own take on it is that the three main routes on the island are indeed still of B class and that the OSM interpretation of the roads is incorrect.
Thank you, that clears it up. I might change the OSM back to B-roads soon, as there is recent (Oct 2019) evidence to prove that they are.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
The B8085 is a short road at the southern end of the Isle of Colonsay.
The route starts around a mile west of the Ferry Pier in the village of Scalasaig, the island's biggest settlement. The junction with the B8086 is completely unsigned, and the road heads off south without even a give way line. A short straight leads to a brief climb
dereer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 15:37
Thank you, that clears it up. I might change the OSM back to B-roads soon, as there is recent (Oct 2019) evidence to prove that they are.
Are there any central UK/Scotland schedules for B-roads like we have in Ireland? I know things work differently there, but maybe if there is, we might find evidence of the road being detrunked.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
dereer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 09:57
Are there any central UK/Scotland schedules for B-roads like we have in Ireland? I know things work differently there, but maybe if there is, we might find evidence of the road being detrunked.
The roads were never trunk.... there would be detrunking legislation on legislation.gov.uk if it were.
Each local authority area is responsible for its own numbering of non trunk roads (which is where it is different from the R roads in Ireland). Therefore, the local authority road list (Argyll and Bute council) should be considered the most accurate list for SABRE's purposes. Of course, OSM has its own rules.
dereer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 09:57
Are there any central UK/Scotland schedules for B-roads like we have in Ireland? I know things work differently there, but maybe if there is, we might find evidence of the road being detrunked.
The roads were never trunk.... there would be detrunking legislation on legislation.gov.uk if it were.
Each local authority area is responsible for its own numbering of non trunk roads (which is where it is different from the R roads in Ireland). Therefore, the local authority road list (Argyll and Bute council) should be considered the most accurate list for SABRE's purposes. Of course, OSM has its own rules.
Oh, that makes sense. By "detrunk", I meant "downgrade", as I confused the words.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
I'm guessing the OSM contributors have gone on the basis that the numbers don't feature on any signs so they don't exist, but signs don't seem to feature much at all on Colonsay.
And as we know on here, signs aren't always correct, even when they do exist. And there a quite a few roads which are classified for historical reasons where the number doesn't warrant signing, like short spurs.
Glen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 16:28
I'm guessing the OSM contributors have gone on the basis that the numbers don't feature on any signs so they don't exist, but signs don't seem to feature much at all on Colonsay.
And as we know on here, signs aren't always correct, even when they do exist. And there a quite a few roads which are classified for historical reasons where the number doesn't warrant signing, like short spurs.
A general rule should be: If there are new signs showing a number but the road is legally a different number, generally the signed number should be used on OSM (i.e. N52 north of Ardee). If there are only old signs or no signs at all showing the number, use the official number on OSM (i.e. R132 in Drogheda)
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
Glen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 16:28
I'm guessing the OSM contributors have gone on the basis that the numbers don't feature on any signs so they don't exist, but signs don't seem to feature much at all on Colonsay.
And as we know on here, signs aren't always correct, even when they do exist. And there a quite a few roads which are classified for historical reasons where the number doesn't warrant signing, like short spurs.
I'm finding OSM to be increasingly unreliable when used in route planning tools, there's roads previously absolutely fine, that no matter what you just can't route along in either driving or cycling mode, and some that you need to switch between the two, I'd fix it if I couldn't just switch to google mode or draw lines to deal with such issues in RWGPS, but I can so it's not much worth the effort.
I fear it's getting a bit close to the plughole for the opposite reason from google maps.
I've just been watching the latest video by British aviation YouTuber Noel Philips of a recent daytrip he made by plane from Oban to Colonsay ('Britain's Least Used Airport'). In between flights he walks from the airport to the main village Scalasaig and back along the B8086. In his video some road signs can be seen but none of them show any road numbers. The part of the video where he's exploring the island runs from 8:00 to 14:30: