Belgium motorway numbering

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Owain
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by Owain » Wed Mar 13, 2019 18:06

exiled wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 17:52
Belgium is a right proper country with an interesting history, and did something last year England could not, won a world cup.
Let me guess - ice hockey?

Indeed, I became quite a fan of Belgium during my brief stay in Brussels a year ago. The Liègeois meatballs are highly recommendable to non-vegetarians.
exiled wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 17:52
If you are driving in Belgium you want to take the Ardennes N4 south from Namur rather than the A4-E411. A rollercoaster with roadsigns!
I'll bear that in mind next time I head in the direction of Luxembourg. Last time I took the A4, deliberately to drive it in its entirety. A brief stop in Naumur reminded me (bizarrely) of Derry. The start of the A4 is most odd; it seems that it was originally intended to reach further into the centre of the metropolis.
exiled wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 13:44
Bouillon is a fantastic castle and town, well worth a visit.
It is. I visited from Luxembourg - on your recommendation, you will recall - in 2016. Unfortunately the castle was shut, but spectacular nonetheless. The N83 was an extremely pleasant drive. Have to go back to drive more Belgian roads!
Last edited by Owain on Wed Mar 13, 2019 18:10, edited 1 time in total.
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exiled
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by exiled » Wed Mar 13, 2019 18:09

Owain wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 18:06
exiled wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 17:52
Belgium is a right proper country with an interesting history, and did something last year England could not, won a world cup.
Let me guess - ice hockey?

Indeed, I became quite a fan of Belgium during my brief stay in Brussels a year ago.
exiled wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 17:52
If you are driving in Belgium you want to take the Ardennes N4 south from Namur rather than the A4-E411. A rollercoaster with roadsigns!
I'll bear that in mind next time I head in the direction of Luxembourg. Last time I took the A4, deliberately to drive it in its entirety. A brief stop in Naumur reminded me (bizarrely) of Derry. The start of the A4 is most odd; it seems that it was originally intended to reach further into the centre of the metropolis.
exiled wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 13:44
Bouillon is a fantastic castle and town, well worth a visit.
It is. I visited from Luxembourg - on your recommendation, you will recall - in 2016. Unfortunately the castle was shut, but spectacular nonetheless. The N83 was an extremely pleasant drive. Have to go back to drive for Belgian roads!
Close, field hockey.
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si404
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by si404 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 19:37

ravenbluemoon wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 20:52
Sweden uses E numbers over their (unprefixed) Riksväg numbering system, though they kind of cocked up the renumbering efforts in the 70s(?)
Proposed 1974, finalised 1975, meant to be enacted 1983, and then majorly revised across Europe in 1985. Finally agreed by Norway and Sweden with the E04/E55 and E06/E47 changed in 1990, with implementation in Scandinavia ocurring in 1992.

And while we're on this - I don't know why Belgium just rolled over with the idea that the old system E40 (OK, a branch/link number) should become E411 - it could have easily been an extension of the E21 (or E23). Given they use E numbers as the public-facing numbers, and the A4 is a major route that can clearly be justified as a Class A E Road, it seems odd to have a 3-digit number for it (obviously there's the issues of A2=E314, A13=E313, A8=E429, etc, but the A4=E411 is the one that sticks out as especially odd).

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Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:32
Blue signs are used everywhere else. Literally. Even plates underneath warning and regulatory signs are blue. Da-ba-dee-da-ba-die.
Worst signage in Europe, hands down (maybe their little neighbours to the SE beat them? most of their signs are Belgian standard but some are French and others German, leading to inconsistency, but higher average quality!). Arguably the most surprising thing with this thread is that it wasn't a more general point about difficulty navigating following Belgian signage. :twisted:

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Peter350 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 14:26
The A11 appears to be another oddity, as its two discontinuous sections travel in completely different directions.
The A11 is continuous. They finished all the signage along the former N49 in October last year (source): 9 months after the main bulk of the long-running project upgrade it to motorway standards was approved, but years before it will be finished! And just over 13 months after the 'western section' opened (as the first new bit of motorway in Belgium since the year 2000).
For a direct Antwerp - Ostend/points west corridor, it would have been better to build a direct route between the N49 near Maldgelm and the A10/E40 near Jabbeke
The plan for this version of the A11 was never about Antwerp-West, but about connecting Knokke-Heist and area to elsewhere. Antwerp to West would gain little from such a route south of Bruges as it would only cut about 4km (or about 4% if you want) off vs going via Gent. The previous plan, before the mid-80s, was also for connecting Knokke-Heist and area to elsewhere - but would have run Brussels-Jabbeke. Funnily enough, the bit in common with the plan that happened is the bit west of Zelzate that is the new bit of A11.

The paper-only E404's description of 'Jabekke-Zeebrugge' would have used the unbuilt A301 - which was assigned to 'Jabbeke-Blauwe Toren'. Blauwe Toren is the site of the A11/E403 junction - suggesting that the A11 ended there in the mid-90s plans.
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by Vierwielen » Wed Mar 13, 2019 22:28

Owain wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 19:56
Chris5156 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 16:28
Peter350 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 13:27
It must be very confusing having to remember three different prefixes for a single standard of road.
I don’t think it’s all that confusing. As a motorist you don’t have to remember how a country’s road numbering system works, you just have to know the numbers for the roads you need to use. I doubt the majority of drivers in Belgium, or visiting Belgium, have given it a moment’s thought.
Indeed, I'd imagine that the majority of motorists joining a Belgian motorway simply look for "Bruxelles", "Liege", "Luxembourg", etc to make sure that they are heading in the right direction. That's all they need.
... and get horribly confused when they see signs for Brussel, Luik or Anvers. :stir:

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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by exiled » Thu Mar 14, 2019 06:53

Belgium definitely dropped the ball on place names, either local to the town, not the sign, or bilingual from installation.
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by c2R » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10

exiled wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 06:53
Belgium definitely dropped the ball on place names, either local to the town, not the sign, or bilingual from installation.
All the bilingual ones I ever saw on the motorway network had graffiti on them so presumably that's why they gave up on that idea, if they have. I always thought it was particularly mean of the graffiti mad locals to expect foreigners to know that Liege has three names.
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by Chris Bertram » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37

c2R wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10
Liege has three names.
OK, I know Liège (French) and Luik (Flemish), what's the third?
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by exiled » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:44

Chris Bertram wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37
c2R wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10
Liege has three names.
OK, I know Liège (French) and Luik (Flemish), what's the third?
Lüttich in German.
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by Chris Bertram » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:02

exiled wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:44
Chris Bertram wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37
c2R wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10
Liege has three names.
OK, I know Liège (French) and Luik (Flemish), what's the third?
Lüttich in German.
Ah right, never heard that before.
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by exiled » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:04

Chris Bertram wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:02
exiled wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:44
Chris Bertram wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37
OK, I know Liège (French) and Luik (Flemish), what's the third?
Lüttich in German.
Ah right, never heard that before.
Same junction as earlier but the other way

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.2672373 ... 312!8i6656

As Bryn pointed out above you can also see where the white on green motorway sign on the non motorway roads is replaced with the white on blue on the motorway itself.
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Re: Belgium motorway numbering

Post by vlad » Thu Mar 14, 2019 19:43

Vierwielen wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 22:28
Owain wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 19:56
Indeed, I'd imagine that the majority of motorists joining a Belgian motorway simply look for "Bruxelles", "Liege", "Luxembourg", etc to make sure that they are heading in the right direction. That's all they need.
... and get horribly confused when they see signs for Brussel, Luik or Anvers. :stir:
If you follow signs for Anvers when you're after Luxembourg then you're either lost or pretty far west!
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