European road markings

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bothar
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European road markings

Post by bothar » Wed Jul 29, 2020 23:24

A friend of mine has a Bulgarian wife and goes there in the summer. They often then travel to Thrace, which is the nearest beach.
Not having been in Bulgaria or northern Greece I was looking on Google Streetview to see what sort of places these were. Road marking in Greece seem fairly usual. I looked at Highway 5 in Bulgaria which runs through the mountains towards Greece (likely much upgraded in recent years), which has several climbing lane sections. The markings on this section worried me a little, given that they drive on the right, as the divider between the two northbound lanes is a much more substantial line than the one between the southbound lane (on the left). It makes better sense to me to have extent of the line conform to whether you should cross it or not.
Despite a lot of harmonisation road markings seem to not to have converged.
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Re: European road markings

Post by Truvelo » Wed Jul 29, 2020 23:44

That is quite a short crawler lane. The markings is more consistent with a layby.
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Re: European road markings

Post by doebag » Thu Jul 30, 2020 07:14

There is another if you 'drive' a bit further [ not many clicks ahead] similar road markings but with a round prohibition sign on the verge.
1000m plate beneath.

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Re: European road markings

Post by JohnnyMo » Thu Jul 30, 2020 07:43

I assume it is more an "Irish style" hard shoulder where slow vehicles can pull over and allow traffic to overtake easily. 200m in a tractor at 30km/h will take 20 to 30 seconds easily enough time for traffic to pass.
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Re: European road markings

Post by Octaviadriver » Thu Jul 30, 2020 09:54

If you go back a little, there's rocks in the road. There are several places where stones have fallen on the road as well as it's mostly poorly protected.
https://goo.gl/maps/59R8n1ftWrk7gACU9
The previous crawler lane to bothar's example has this sign.
https://goo.gl/maps/8saYJV8sfEDLxJao8
There's a lovely patch of ice at the end of bothar's example.
https://goo.gl/maps/6jcFaJrRUS6EsEWF7
The road is nearly deserted and it's difficult to find another vehicle on it apart from the camera car. It's one to add to list of must visit one day.

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Re: European road markings

Post by Owain » Thu Jul 30, 2020 14:02

JohnnyMo wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 07:43
I assume it is more an "Irish style" hard shoulder where slow vehicles can pull over and allow traffic to overtake easily. 200m in a tractor at 30km/h will take 20 to 30 seconds easily enough time for traffic to pass.
Yes - I think it's a crawler lane, rather than a normal lane + overtaking lane. If so, it's like those that sometimes appear on the right on French autoroutes; you are not supposed to drive in it unless you are a particularly slow vehicle that will struggle to climb the hill, and it can actually be quite dangerous to do so if driving at anything close to the speed limit.

bothar wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 23:24
... The markings on this section worried me a little, given that they drive on the right, as the divider between the two northbound lanes is a much more substantial line than the one between the southbound lane (on the left)...
If you spin the camera around to look at the way that the lane begins, it suggests that normal traffic should stay in the continuous lane rather than move over into the crawler (even if the signage doesn't necessarily suggest that).

As for 'harmonisation', this could almost be Italy.

And this looks like a reason for going to Bulgaria.
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Gareth
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Re: European road markings

Post by Gareth » Thu Jul 30, 2020 20:30

It could really do with a more distinct line though. Here, I think we'd probably use the shorter lines, similar to that used on deceleration lanes.

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Re: European road markings

Post by bothar » Thu Jul 30, 2020 21:41

Octaviadriver wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 09:54
If you go back a little, there's rocks in the road. There are several places where stones have fallen on the road as well as it's mostly poorly protected.
https://goo.gl/maps/59R8n1ftWrk7gACU9
The previous crawler lane to bothar's example has this sign.
https://goo.gl/maps/8saYJV8sfEDLxJao8
There's a lovely patch of ice at the end of bothar's example.
https://goo.gl/maps/6jcFaJrRUS6EsEWF7
The road is nearly deserted and it's difficult to find another vehicle on it apart from the camera car. It's one to add to list of must visit one day.
Quite a winter wonderland in March further along in the Shipka Pass and an actual car too.
Owain wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 14:02
And this looks like a reason for going to Bulgaria.
When he comes back I'll ask if he actually has driven that way. He has left his old Irish car, a 30 year old Merc, in Bulgaria and uses this for his holidays, but of course the steering wheel is on the wrong side.

I never see myself driving in Bulgaria, but do hope to visit sometime.
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Re: European road markings

Post by Truvelo » Thu Jul 30, 2020 22:15

When this pandemic is all over I might take a trip to Bulgaria. It looks like there's some nice drivers' roads, especially in the winter.
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Re: European road markings

Post by Owain » Thu Jul 30, 2020 23:09

Truvelo wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 22:15
When this pandemic is all over I might take a trip to Bulgaria. It looks like there's some nice drivers' roads, especially in the winter.
... and very little traffic too, from the looks of it.

Just make sure you choose a good hire car! :wink:
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Re: European road markings

Post by Vierwielen » Fri Jul 31, 2020 16:20

This one in South Africa (although not in Europe) is quite explicit about which lane to use. When I was a lad, I use to live not far from this site. On this one on the other hand, pedestrians, donkey carts and bicycles remain to the left of the yellow line but motorists remain to the right of the yellow lines, but if a vehicle comes up behind you, you are expected to move over and let them pass.

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Re: European road markings

Post by JosephA22 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:41

Octaviadriver wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 09:54
If you go back a little, there's rocks in the road. There are several places where stones have fallen on the road as well as it's mostly poorly protected.
https://goo.gl/maps/59R8n1ftWrk7gACU9
The previous crawler lane to bothar's example has this sign.
https://goo.gl/maps/8saYJV8sfEDLxJao8
There's a lovely patch of ice at the end of bothar's example.
https://goo.gl/maps/6jcFaJrRUS6EsEWF7
The road is nearly deserted and it's difficult to find another vehicle on it apart from the camera car. It's one to add to list of must visit one day.
That piece of road was closed at the time Google drove it (special dispensation or just ignored the signs?) in March 2012. Further back, at what looks like the last junction before the border, there is this sign on the March 2012 footage:
https://goo.gl/maps/CYWbbHRWdiDGQFtv8
It shows "open" on later footage, although Google apparently didn't drive it much further past that point again.

The same road on the Greek side, captured in 2019, seems to show a healthy amount of traffic, and nowhere other than across the border to go. It would be interesting to see if the road layout and/or markings have been "improved" on the Bulgarian side since 2012.

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Re: European road markings

Post by Truvelo » Wed Aug 05, 2020 17:29

JosephA22 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:41
That piece of road was closed at the time Google drove it (special dispensation or just ignored the signs?) in March 2012. Further back, at what looks like the last junction before the border, there is this sign on the March 2012 footage:
https://goo.gl/maps/CYWbbHRWdiDGQFtv8
It shows "open" on later footage, although Google apparently didn't drive it much further past that point again.
If you turn round on the later footage there is a heavy police presence under the bridge.
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Re: European road markings

Post by WHBM » Wed Aug 05, 2020 18:09

Truvelo wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 17:29
If you turn round on the later footage there is a heavy police presence under the bridge.
Looks like a Russian-style (even in 2020) police check. They always find something wrong eventually. USD 10 to be on your way, USD 20 if a Mercedes/BMW. I understand Bulgaria/Romania are similar. I wonder how much for the Google photo car.

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Re: European road markings

Post by Truvelo » Wed Aug 05, 2020 19:11

WHBM wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 18:09
Truvelo wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 17:29
If you turn round on the later footage there is a heavy police presence under the bridge.
Looks like a Russian-style (even in 2020) police check. They always find something wrong eventually. USD 10 to be on your way, USD 20 if a Mercedes/BMW. I understand Bulgaria/Romania are similar. I wonder how much for the Google photo car.
In Slovakia in 2008 I was driving from Bratislava to Hungary. It is less than 10 miles from Bratislava to the border and I didn't think it was worth buying a vignette for such a short distance. Big mistake. A couple of car lengths before the border there was a police checkpoint here looking for vehicles without a vignette. It ended up costing €100. I suspect there must be plenty of drivers who think they can chance it. On the return journey I took the parallel road which isn't tolled.
https://goo.gl/maps/QxAMHJDSMM8XUWfFA
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Re: European road markings

Post by Owain » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:14

Truvelo wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 19:11
WHBM wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 18:09
Truvelo wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 17:29
If you turn round on the later footage there is a heavy police presence under the bridge.
Looks like a Russian-style (even in 2020) police check. They always find something wrong eventually. USD 10 to be on your way, USD 20 if a Mercedes/BMW. I understand Bulgaria/Romania are similar. I wonder how much for the Google photo car.
In Slovakia in 2008 I was driving from Bratislava to Hungary. It is less than 10 miles from Bratislava to the border and I didn't think it was worth buying a vignette for such a short distance. Big mistake. A couple of car lengths before the border there was a police checkpoint here looking for vehicles without a vignette. It ended up costing €100. I suspect there must be plenty of drivers who think they can chance it. On the return journey I took the parallel road which isn't tolled.
https://goo.gl/maps/QxAMHJDSMM8XUWfFA
I am still a fugitive in Slovenia after driving on a motorway without realising that a vignette was required. I assumed the signs showing the image of a camera were to remind people to obey the speed limit (how English of me!). It turned out that they were warning drivers about cameras like this, through which I passed on my way back to Italy. Ooops .... it's a good job there wasn't a barrier!

It was a day of general numptiness. First, I managed to put a ticket machine out of operation by accidentally inserting my parking ticket into the credit card slot and jamming it up (the instructions were in Slovenian only, without translation into any other European language). The machine fined me €15 for 'losing' my ticket, which I paid in cash because the credit card slot was .... er, jammed up with a parking ticket.

Then I drove to Croatia by mistake.

Croazia per incidente!.jpg

It was on my return to Italy across the narrow part of Slovenia that I committed the vignette transgression. I'd had no intention of driving on any motorways, but unwittingly followed a sign for Trieste that look me onto the A1 for a short distance. Since that day of destruction, I've never been back to either Slovenia or Croatia, but they both looked like very pleasant countries well worth returning to (in a different car).
A steering wheel should be round. Not quartic. Not a triangle. Not a dodecahedron. Not flattened off at one side. A proper circle: :shout: Round!

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Re: European road markings

Post by trickstat » Thu Aug 06, 2020 22:26

Owain wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 14:02
JohnnyMo wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 07:43
I assume it is more an "Irish style" hard shoulder where slow vehicles can pull over and allow traffic to overtake easily. 200m in a tractor at 30km/h will take 20 to 30 seconds easily enough time for traffic to pass.
Yes - I think it's a crawler lane, rather than a normal lane + overtaking lane. If so, it's like those that sometimes appear on the right on French autoroutes; you are not supposed to drive in it unless you are a particularly slow vehicle that will struggle to climb the hill, and it can actually be quite dangerous to do so if driving at anything close to the speed limit.

bothar wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 23:24
... The markings on this section worried me a little, given that they drive on the right, as the divider between the two northbound lanes is a much more substantial line than the one between the southbound lane (on the left)...
If you spin the camera around to look at the way that the lane begins, it suggests that normal traffic should stay in the continuous lane rather than move over into the crawler (even if the signage doesn't necessarily suggest that).

As for 'harmonisation', this could almost be Italy.

And this looks like a reason for going to Bulgaria.
This is the view from the Freedom Monument a little way from here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.7483433, ... 312!8i6656

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Re: European road markings

Post by exiled » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26

Interesting set up here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.71290 ... 6656?hl=en

The border runs down the street, and the crossing on rue de la Cittadelle is Belgium, the direction signs are in Belgium's colour scheme, but French versions of the colours and in a French style. The crossings on rue Jules Guesde are very much French.

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Re: European road markings

Post by Nwallace » Tue Aug 11, 2020 00:57

Rue de la citadel is very Belgian!
The traffic Island, the arrows, the bike lanes.

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Re: European road markings

Post by exiled » Tue Aug 11, 2020 08:16

Nwallace wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 00:57
Rue de la citadel is very Belgian!
The traffic Island, the arrows, the bike lanes.

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I like how the municipalities involved have managed to merge both Belgian and French signage, and actually improved both.

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