Melbourne right turns

[scynthius726]

Thought some of you guys might be interested in how right turning is accomplished in Melbourne city centre. The trams run down the middle of the street, so if you encroach on the tramlines while waiting for a gap, you get in the way of the trams. If you wait for a gap to the left of the tramlines, you hold up straight-ahead traffic because there will probably be a left-turning vehicle next to you waiting for pedestrians to finish crossing.

The solution to this problem is to have right-turning traffic wait for a gap at the LEFT hand side of the road and wait for a gap in both directions. Looks really weird, but works quite well because all the traffic which has to give way to someone is over at one side of the road: therefore the trams and straight-ahead traffic can proceed unimpeded when the light is green.

[andrew_duffy]

There is a right turn like this along the red Luas line in Dublin. People regularly block the tram anyway.

[dragonv480]

I don't like the way they normal have a red-amber-green signal, with a left amber arrow and a left green arrow (or right) to the side, but no red aspect of it's own, "sharing" the red with the main signal even though it's not "in line" with the green and amber of the filter lane...

Even worse, at some junctions, ahead may be controlled by a red-amber-green signal, but the left turn just has 2-aspect signals which are an amber arrow and a red arrow, but no green aspect at all - so basically, if it's amber or red, you stop, but then it just switches off when you can go. This is true even if the left turn is a good bit away from the main junction (where in the UK it would simply be a give-way merge)

I *do* like the U-turn signal heads though good idea! I must get a photo of that before I leave!

[traffic-light-man]

I don't like the way they have a red-amber-green signal, with a left amber arrow and a left green arrow (or right) but no red aspect of it's own, "sharing" the red with the main signal.

Even worse, at some junctions, ahead may be controlled by a red-amber-green signal, but the left turn has a 2-aspect signal which is an amber arrow and a red arrow, but no green aspect at all - so basically, if it's amber or red, you stop, but then it just switches off when you can go.

have you come across any eagle sig. corp. neon worded ped signals?

[dragonv480]

have you come across any eagle sig. corp. neon worded ped signals?

Got a reference picture for me, so I can observe from a distance? I have seen worded ped signals aplenty, but the specifics are unknown. But I'll start paying more attention next time I'm walking in the city.

[coasterjunkie]

Isn't this type of turn called a hook turn?

Andy

[Crystal Walrein]

Give a short signal for the trams only as you would give a turn lane. That'll fix things. Provided, of course, the tram line and turn lane aren't shared.

[sydneynick]

Isn't this type of turn called a hook turn?

Andy

Yes.

And the original post is a little wrong. Right-turning traffic pulls to the left, into the cross street, but it does not wait for a break in the traffic. It waits until the lights change. At least in theory.

[WHBM]

This style of Hook Turn crops up at various places round the world.

In Paris at various of the wide open junctions the city buses, wanting to turn left across all the traffic, will have a bus stop in the nearside lane approaching the junction, then swing to the right and start its left turn and wait. Traffic in the cross street has a set back stop line to allow this. When the signals change the bus is first away across the junction. Only buses are allowed to make such a turn.

On the A4 coming into London at Sutton Court Road (first signals after Hammersmith) there is No Right Turn, but the odd car will very unofficially turn to the left then swing round and wait for the signals to change. Only cars up to the size of about a VW Golf will fit, but I've seen it going on there for years. Maybe the Australians from Melbourne living in Earls Court started it !

[horsetan]

Isn't this type of turn called a hook turn?

Andy

Yes.

And the original post is a little wrong. Right-turning traffic pulls to the left, into the cross street, but it does not wait for a break in the traffic. It waits until the lights change. At least in theory.

....and here is the sign for it, taken in December 2002 during my month there:



I've got quite a few Melbourne traffic signal pics too Should I upload them....??

[scynthius726]

I've got quite a few Melbourne traffic signal pics too Should I upload them....??

Well it would save me the bother

[B 67]

I don't like the way they normal have a red-amber-green signal, with a left amber arrow and a left green arrow (or right) to the side, but no red aspect of it's own, "sharing" the red with the main signal even though it's not "in line" with the green and amber of the filter lane...

This style of signal is rarely, if ever installed nowadays. The idea of them is that the arrows only worked either at peak traffic times or on demand when traffic was queued trying to turn. At other times filter turns were permitted. So a red arrow wasn't needed. Usually the green arrow only operated for the first part of the green phase and then the amber arrow came on and then filter turns were permitted. As traffic volumes have increased over the years, red arrows have started to be installed at many locations that previously didn't have them. Although unusual, I've noticed that at some such locations the red arrow will go off to permit filter turns. This isn't really a great idea as you don't know if the red is off or the bulb is blown. Mind you, with LED signals, that's less of a problem.

Even worse, at some junctions, ahead may be controlled by a red-amber-green signal, but the left turn just has 2-aspect signals which are an amber arrow and a red arrow, but no green aspect at all - so basically, if it's amber or red, you stop, but then it just switches off when you can go. This is true even if the left turn is a good bit away from the main junction (where in the UK it would simply be a give-way merge)

At a lot of signalised intersections in Victoria, there are slip lanes for left-turning traffic. These are usually unsignalled and traffic is permitted to turn any time when safe. The red and amber arrows that appear at some of these slip lanes are purely for pedestrians to cross. They are generally used where traffic is moving faster, such as freeway on ramps, or where there are high traffic volumes, especially with more than one lane, where drivers may not otherwise give way to pedestrians. There is no green arrows on these signals because, in Australia at least, a green arrow indicates there are no conflicting movements. And almost always there is a give way sign or merge immediately after these crossings. So normal rules apply when the red and amber arrows are off.

I *do* like the U-turn signal heads though good idea! I must get a photo of that before I leave!

Yeah, they're appearing at more and more locations these days.

[B 67]

have you come across any eagle sig. corp. neon worded ped signals?

Got a reference picture for me, so I can observe from a distance? I have seen worded ped signals aplenty, but the specifics are unknown. But I'll start paying more attention next time I'm walking in the city.

I imagine he's referring to these things.



They're becoming increasingly rare, and you'll only find them in a handful of locations in suburban Melbourne. And every time I go to have a look, I find that yet another has succumbed to modernisation. Apparently they are only replaced once they fail. And considering that any still in use would be well over 30 years old now, it's rather amazing that any of them are left.

More photos on my site Signspotters

[horsetan]

They're becoming increasingly rare, and you'll only find them in a handful of locations in suburban Melbourne...[/url]

Glen Waverley.

[B 67]

Didn't realise this was a "Where is it?" quiz. But if it were, I'd be saying, no. It is not Glen Waverley. It's Holmsglen, or to be a bit more accurate, Chadstone. However, I was standing in Malvern East when I took the photo. Of course the next suburb to the east is Mount Waverley, and east of that again is Glen Waverley. So you weren't too far off.

[horsetan]

Didn't realise this was a "Where is it?" quiz. But if it were, I'd be saying, no. It is not Glen Waverley. It's Holmsglen, or to be a bit more accurate, Chadstone. ...

Sorry, what I meant is that last time I was in Melbourne (Dec. 2002), I found similar neon ped signals in Glen Waverley. They might still be in use.

[B 67]

Didn't realise this was a "Where is it?" quiz. But if it were, I'd be saying, no. It is not Glen Waverley. It's Holmsglen, or to be a bit more accurate, Chadstone. ...

Sorry, what I meant is that last time I was in Melbourne (Dec. 2002), I found similar neon ped signals in Glen Waverley. They might still be in use.

Ah yes! How could I have failed to realise that.

No idea if Glen Waverley still has neon peds. I'll try to check it out next time I'm down that way.

[horsetan]

...No idea if Glen Waverley still has neon peds. I'll try to check it out next time I'm down that way.

I was staying in Blackburn South with friends. The thing I'll always remember about the long holiday is "REW 669", this big white Holden VX Commodore that I hired from the local Avis office. It had everything - cruise control, seats with adjustable lumbar support, and an effortless 3.8litre V6 - I remember caning it through the Dandenongs, and it soaked it all up.

I even drove it into the city centre because I wanted to have a few goes at the hooked right turn!

On my second or third day there, the biggest Harley Davidson dealership in Melbourne went up in smoke. I still say the fire contributed about 0.3C to the day's temperature, which was 36.3C

[traffic-light-man]

Didn't realise this was a "Where is it?" quiz. But if it were, I'd be saying, no. It is not Glen Waverley. It's Holmsglen, or to be a bit more accurate, Chadstone. ...

Sorry, what I meant is that last time I was in Melbourne (Dec. 2002), I found similar neon ped signals in Glen Waverley. They might still be in use.

Ah yes! How could I have failed to realise that.

No idea if Glen Waverley still has neon peds. I'll try to check it out next time I'm down that way.

has anyone else in signalfans club got an Austrailian one?

[horsetan]

This is the exact one in Glen Waverley that I saw.