Guide to UNITED STATES

[Burns]

Perhaps US101 had three lanes when it was built and it was widened on the cheap?

I was thinking that but even though that's an extreme example, I still found American Highway lanes to be narrower than ours.

I did enjoy the frequency of turnouts on the road to Yosemite. They also seemed to be (mostly) well used by slower traffic. All we need to do now is introduce them over here and prosecute to fullest extent of the law anyone who drives slow for no reason and ignores them.

[CallumParry]

Perhaps US101 had three lanes when it was built and it was widened on the cheap?

As for prepaying fuel it works the same as pay at pump over here although many forecourts have pumps that ask for your postcode in which case you have to pay inside. If you put in less fuel than you paid for the remainder will be refunded so you don't lose out.

I noticed that too with paying at the pump, i just settled for paying for fuel with cash.

[J N Winkler]

A lot of those things you put down as positive, I'm really not sure about.

- Lots of lanes meaning chaotic driving, especially combined with it being largely a free-for-all with no slow lane - tends to lead to platoons of traffic all moving at similar speeds, which means it is difficult if you want to drive faster or slower, and leads to more weaving.

The concept of KRETP is understood in the US, though not as rigorously observed as admirers of European driving norms would wish. The real problem is long columns of cars entering on short headways at closely spaced on-ramps, which often results in the lane next to the right-hand lane becoming the "slow" lane by default. Ramp metering mitigates this problem but is far from universal.

- Not keen on trucks doing the same speed as cars, the weight in those things means that at 70mph they take a hell of a lot of stopping (especially with liquid cargo) and the damage they can do at higher speeds is catastrophic.

Relatively little liquid goes by road in the US since pipelines and freight rail have higher mode shares than in most western European countries. FHWA did a comparative study several years ago that looked at states with differential speed limits (lower limits for trucks) and was not able to find any evidence that truck-related accidents were less frequent or less severe in those states than in others with uniform limits for trucks and cars. Some states (notably Ohio and Texas) have jettisoned their truck limits, though they still persist in California.

- Paying for fuel before you fill up ... why? I want to fill the tank, I have no idea how much that is going to cost, just let me brim it and pay for what I have used. It's an absurd system.

It is inconvenient if you are working with cash, but it is not absurd--it is designed to prevent "gas-and-dash" (which is now grounds for driver license suspension in many US states).

What I found a bit disconcerting was how narrow the lanes were, especially when you consider that the average American car is bigger than the average British car. Take, for example US101 north of the Golden Gate Bridge and compare it with the M90. I'd say the M90 with its two lanes and hard shoulder takes up more space than four lanes of US101.

Current lane width standards for high-type roads are essentially the same in the US and the UK (they were identical when the UK still used feet and inches). Truvelo is correct to intuit that this length of freeway US 101 (near Sausalito) originally opened with just six lanes but was later restriped to eight with no real increase in width.

USGS 1956 aerial photo showing original six-lane configuration

Some of the roads you traversed, including what sounds like California SR 140 between Mariposa and the Yosemite NP west entrance, were paved long ago but have been slow to receive attention because it is very expensive to secure modern standards of unit lane width and minimum horizontal curve radius for the traffic they carry. In the specific case of SR 140 the Merced River runs closely parallel and constrains the possibilities for alignment.

California has a number of "one-lane state highways"--roads maintained as primary state highways by Caltrans but nevertheless so narrow that they have a special striping pattern consisting of two white edgelines with no centerline. An example:

SR 4 at Ebbetts Pass summit

Caltrans is slowly improving them out of existence. The key thing is that, within the context of the California state highway system as a whole, these and other challenging lengths of road are fairly isolated.

[Andy J]

We're off to southwestern USA in May for three weeks to do assorted national parks starting from Las Vegas. Planning on visiting the Route 66 Museum at Kingman and hopefully also drive the original Route 66 from there to Seligman. Has anyone on here done this?

[Truvelo]

Yes, I did that a few years ago. Kingman to Seligman is really nice and remote with little traffic and plenty of long straights to overtake should you ever catch up with anyone.

[Beardy5632]

We're off to southwestern USA in May for three weeks to do assorted national parks starting from Las Vegas. Planning on visiting the Route 66 Museum at Kingman and hopefully also drive the original Route 66 from there to Seligman. Has anyone on here done this?

I was over there in August/September time and did a tour which included driving on some of route 66. If you're going to Seligman make sure you stop by Delgadillo's Snow Cap Drive-In though, it's worth a visit.

[Andy J]

It's our first day over there after flying in to Las Vegas the previous afternoon, and I have to get to Flagstaff. Pretty sure I can justify the extra time taken on Route 66 compared to the I-40 on grounds of not falling asleep at the wheel quite apart from anything else.

[Truvelo]

If you're going to Seligman make sure you stop by Delgadillo's Snow Cap Drive-In though, it's worth a visit.

I drove straight through there only stopping to take some photos like this. A pity, as many Sabristi have used the various restaurants there.

[Beardy5632]

That's a great picture. It's an interesting place.

[Truvelo]

Southern Arizona is just as interesting. It has one thing that defines the wild west - the Saguaro Cactus. The current Photo of the Month was taken there. Unfortunately there's no such cacti in the northern half of the state.

[KeithW]

We're off to southwestern USA in May for three weeks to do assorted national parks starting from Las Vegas. Planning on visiting the Route 66 Museum at Kingman and hopefully also drive the original Route 66 from there to Seligman. Has anyone on here done this?

yes I did this in June 2000 when I drove the whole way from Chicago to Santa Monica. Its a great drive, there are a number of online guides like
http://arizonahighwayguides.com/seligma ... /index.htm

But I highly recommend Tom Snyders guide (Route 66: Traveler's Guide and Roadside Companion) which is available on Amazon

Unless you have been before do NOT miss a trip to the Grand Canyon, IMHO the North Rim is better but the south rim is easily doable as day trip from Seligman. One place that is really close to Vegas and absolutely spectacular is Valley of Fire State Park Nevada. You have probably already sussed this out but room rates in LasVegas rocket at weekends but you can get some real bargains mid week so taking the side trips at weekends is usually a good plan.

If you have the time and the freedom consider a circle route from Las Vegas. We did this route

Las Vegas - Flagstaff
Flagstaff to GC
GC to Kayenta for Monument Valley note Kayenta is in the Navajo Nation and is alcohol free.
Kayenta to Moab for Arches NP and Canyonlands NP
Moab to Hurricane Utah for Zion NP
Hurricane to Beatty Nevada (for Death Valley)
Beatty to Las Vegas


May is a pretty good time to visit Death Valley, the temperature probably wont hit more than 100 deg F, in July it can reach 120. However if you drive the road to Dantes View which is over 5000 ft above the valley level it can be 30 degrees cooler and the view is unbelievable.

Finding lodgings in DV at short notice can be a problem. The only hotels/motels are at Furnace Creek and Stovepipe Wells. However just across the border on the Nevada side is Beatty where motels and hotels are pretty cheap in comparison if a little basic.
Main tip for Beatty is check the AC unit in the room works, it was 95 deg at 6 pm but still 90 and humid at midnight and that was in October.

One thing to be aware of is that California and Nevada have had massive snowfalls this winter with Mammoth Lake expecting to see skiing into May. This will mean a LOT of extra water coming down rivers which are usually dry by May so check road conditions especially if going anywhere off the main routes.

[KeithW]

Southern Arizona is just as interesting. It has one thing that defines the wild west - the Saguaro Cactus. The current Photo of the Month was taken there. Unfortunately there's no such cacti in the northern half of the state.

I found Tucson to be quite fascinating. I was there in early November and the temp was a positively cool 84 F in daytime and 60 at night. The Arizona Wildlife Park was worth a visit and as an old aeroplane head the Pima air and space museum was amazing. The high point of my visit (pun intended) was the drive to the top of Mt Lemmon which is 9000 ft above sea level. In winter you can play golf in the morning and drive up the mountain to ski in the afternoon.

[Andy J]

Unless you have been before do NOT miss a trip to the Grand Canyon, IMHO the North Rim is better but the south rim is easily doable as day trip from Seligman. One place that is really close to Vegas and absolutely spectacular is Valley of Fire State Park Nevada. You have probably already sussed this out but room rates in LasVegas rocket at weekends but you can get some real bargains mid week so taking the side trips at weekends is usually a good plan.

If you have the time and the freedom consider a circle route from Las Vegas. We did this route

Las Vegas - Flagstaff
Flagstaff to GC
GC to Kayenta for Monument Valley note Kayenta is in the Navajo Nation and is alcohol free.
Kayenta to Moab for Arches NP and Canyonlands NP
Moab to Hurricane Utah for Zion NP
Hurricane to Beatty Nevada (for Death Valley)
Beatty to Las Vegas

Interesting Keith, thanks. Valley of Fire looks really good, and we can't do Death Valley either so scope there for a trip another year! Our itinerary with a hired car is

Las Vegas - Flagstaff (2 nights)
Flagstaff to Grand Canyon Village (3 nights)
GC - Monument Valley (via Page)
Monument Valley - Cortez (for Mesa Verde)
Cortez - Durango
Durango - Grand Junction (for Colorado Monument and Dinosaur)
GJ - Moab (4 nights for Arches, Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point)
Moab - Torrey (2 nights for Capitol Reef)
Torrey - Tropic (3 nights for Bryce Canyon)
Tropic - Springdale (2nights for Zion)
Springdale - LV

[KeithW]

Interesting Keith, thanks. Valley of Fire looks really good, and we can't do Death Valley either so scope there for a trip another year! Our itinerary with a hired car is

Las Vegas - Flagstaff (2 nights)
Flagstaff to Grand Canyon Village (3 nights)
GC - Monument Valley (via Page)
Monument Valley - Cortez (for Mesa Verde)
Cortez - Durango
Durango - Grand Junction (for Colorado Monument and Dinosaur)
GJ - Moab (4 nights for Arches, Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point)
Moab - Torrey (2 nights for Capitol Reef)
Torrey - Tropic (3 nights for Bryce Canyon)
Tropic - Springdale (2nights for Zion)
Springdale - LV

Very good itinerary

Since you have a day free in Flagstaff consider the drive to Petrified Forest NP and /or Meteor Crater close to which is Holbrook and the old Wigwam Motel on Route 66. Its worth stopping off just for a photo shoot. With the parking lot usually full of classic American cars its like stepping back in time 50 years.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@34.90291 ... authuser=0

[Andy J]

Since you have a day free in Flagstaff consider the drive to Petrified Forest NP and /or Meteor Crater close to which is Holbrook and the old Wigwam Motel on Route 66. Its worth stopping off just for a photo shoot. With the parking lot usually full of classic American cars its like stepping back in time 50 years.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@34.90291 ... authuser=0

The wife's a geologist so Meteor Crater and Petrified Forest were on the original itinerary but I've tentatively scrubbed them off in favour of the much closer Sedona and Red rock country. Problem is there's so much to do everywhere. Even from Flagstaff there's also Walnut Canyon, Sunset Crater Volcano and Wupatki.

[KeithW]

Since you have a day free in Flagstaff consider the drive to Petrified Forest NP and /or Meteor Crater close to which is Holbrook and the old Wigwam Motel on Route 66. Its worth stopping off just for a photo shoot. With the parking lot usually full of classic American cars its like stepping back in time 50 years.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@34.90291 ... authuser=0

The wife's a geologist so Meteor Crater and Petrified Forest were on the original itinerary but I've tentatively scrubbed them off in favour of the much closer Sedona and Red rock country. Problem is there's so much to do everywhere. Even from Flagstaff there's also Walnut Canyon, Sunset Crater Volcano and Wupatki.

Decisions decisions

[Andy J]

Decisions decisions

Yep, it's a tough life.

[Truvelo]

I know, that's why I'm spending two weeks there this July instead of the usual week. Hopefully I can visit everything I want to see rather than choose those I have time for.

[Klepsydra]

Another guide I'd massively recommend if you're aiming to do (bits of) Route 66 is Jerry McClanahan's, which is fascinatingly readable in its own right for any roadgeek as well as being very usable in the field. (http://www.mcjerry66.com/)

[SteveA30]

What hoops do you have to jump through these days, before you even board a plane? I haven't been there since 2004, which was before post 9/11 extra security came in. You just had to fill out a Visa Waiver form, about 30 mins before landing.

I'm put off by reports of 50 or more questions, details of itinerary and sullen customs staff at US airports. In NY, SF and Orlando, they were civil, in a businesslike sort of way.