Femern Fixed Link

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c2R
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Femern Fixed Link

Post by c2R »

Here is the project website in English : http://www.femern.com/

It looks very impressive - the colouring of light and pattern through the road tunnel is an interesting trial...
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Vierwielen »

At 17.6 km, it will be the third longest road tunnel in the world. The current top four are:
  1. Lærdal Tunnel, Norway (24.5 km)
  2. Zhongnanshan Tunnel, China (18.0 km)
  3. Jingpingshan, China (17.5 km)
  4. Gotthard Tunnel, Switzerland (16.9 km)
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Lewandowski »

It's certainly impressive.

Once Denmark builds this, the last thing for them will be to build a connection from Rostock to Gedser, which will open up Central-Eastern Europe too. As it stands, traffic is unlikely to divert from Rostock.

What's interesting is that Germany is investing very little into this project as a whole. It will be owned by the Danish Government, and they are financing it themselves. It's also quite unlikely that the Germans will commit to any significant upgrades on their side, and the Danish still have the issue of one very old bridge that needs to be replaced on their side too.

Having said this, Scandlines have a dreadful monopoly on the current crossing. I've used their crossing once by train, and although the train-ferry is an excellent thing to experience, the ships themselves are pretty basic and horrible. I asked one Danish person how much they have to pay to cross, and the answer was a minimum of 60 Euro for a one day return ticket. That's ridiculous by all accounts, particularly as you can get a return from Poland to Sweden for the same price and they earn very well with onboard sales.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

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Lewandowski wrote: I asked one Danish person how much they have to pay to cross, and the answer was a minimum of 60 Euro for a one day return ticket. That's ridiculous by all accounts, particularly as you can get a return from Poland to Sweden for the same price and they earn very well with onboard sales.
My wife has just booked to go to Berlin for a long weekend by train. Cost: 60 euros each way, and that's all the way from Gothenburg to Berlin, not just the Danish bit.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Lewandowski »

FosseWay wrote:
Lewandowski wrote: I asked one Danish person how much they have to pay to cross, and the answer was a minimum of 60 Euro for a one day return ticket. That's ridiculous by all accounts, particularly as you can get a return from Poland to Sweden for the same price and they earn very well with onboard sales.
My wife has just booked to go to Berlin for a long weekend by train. Cost: 60 euros each way, and that's all the way from Gothenburg to Berlin, not just the Danish bit.
I did Stockholm-Frankfurt (Oder) for 39 Euro last year :) Combined with a 6 Euro ticket to Poznan, it did the trick! Astonishingly good value, it has to be said.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

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Lewandowski wrote:
FosseWay wrote:
Lewandowski wrote: I asked one Danish person how much they have to pay to cross, and the answer was a minimum of 60 Euro for a one day return ticket. That's ridiculous by all accounts, particularly as you can get a return from Poland to Sweden for the same price and they earn very well with onboard sales.
My wife has just booked to go to Berlin for a long weekend by train. Cost: 60 euros each way, and that's all the way from Gothenburg to Berlin, not just the Danish bit.
I did Stockholm-Frankfurt (Oder) for 39 Euro last year :) Combined with a 6 Euro ticket to Poznan, it did the trick! Astonishingly good value, it has to be said.
Via Denmark or across the Baltic? The former must take a while to Poznań. There is of course also the option of the ferry from Ystad to Świnoujście, but Ystad is a bit of a pain to get to by public transport from anywhere other than Malmö/Lund.

The ferries to Tallinn have some very good offers sometimes (if you don't mind sharing a ship with thousands of stag/hen parties).
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Lewandowski »

FosseWay wrote:Via Denmark or across the Baltic? The former must take a while to Poznań. There is of course also the option of the ferry from Ystad to Świnoujście, but Ystad is a bit of a pain to get to by public transport from anywhere other than Malmö/Lund.

The ferries to Tallinn have some very good offers sometimes (if you don't mind sharing a ship with thousands of stag/hen parties).
I went to a local DB agent and managed to get them to come up with what I thought was a splendid trip : first train to Copenhagen from Stockholm in the morning, then a few hours in Copenhagen. Last train to Hamburg (via the ferry), spending the night there. First train in the morning to Berlin, then the last train of the night to Frankfurt(Oder).

It took a lot of playing around with their booking system, but it was eventually persuaded to give up such a deal. All in all, it was about 15 hours of travelling by train.

I've just spotted that it is theoretically possible to do Stockholm-Poznan by train in one day. 20 hours, via Copenhagen, Puttgarden, Lubeck and Szczecin. I'm pretty sure it would be faster than going by ferry!
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by B9127 »

Looking at the accounts they seem to get very large EU subsidies to fund the link - does the UK get similar subsidies for road projects?
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

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A lot of Welsh road upgrades have had European funding
Built for comfort, not speed.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Lewandowski »

B9127 wrote:Looking at the accounts they seem to get very large EU subsidies to fund the link - does the UK get similar subsidies for road projects?
That's partially because the project has not only national, but also regional importance. I'm certain that any UK-Ireland tunnel would also attract considerable amounts of subsidy.

I do think at 20km, this tunnel shows that it is possible to build longer tunnels for road transport. I do think that it's a great shame that the 'turn up and go' promise of the Channel Tunnel wasn't realised.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Vierwielen »

B9127 wrote:Looking at the accounts they seem to get very large EU subsidies to fund the link - does the UK get similar subsidies for road projects?
The Femern link is an international link. HS1 (which was built to link England and France) got EU subsidies as well. I think that the case for EWU subsidies for roads that carry very little international traffic is poor.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Nikolaj »

Lewandowski wrote:It's certainly impressive.

Once Denmark builds this, the last thing for them will be to build a connection from Rostock to Gedser, which will open up Central-Eastern Europe too. As it stands, traffic is unlikely to divert from Rostock.

What's interesting is that Germany is investing very little into this project as a whole. It will be owned by the Danish Government, and they are financing it themselves. It's also quite unlikely that the Germans will commit to any significant upgrades on their side, and the Danish still have the issue of one very old bridge that needs to be replaced on their side too.

Having said this, Scandlines have a dreadful monopoly on the current crossing. I've used their crossing once by train, and although the train-ferry is an excellent thing to experience, the ships themselves are pretty basic and horrible. I asked one Danish person how much they have to pay to cross, and the answer was a minimum of 60 Euro for a one day return ticket. That's ridiculous by all accounts, particularly as you can get a return from Poland to Sweden for the same price and they earn very well with onboard sales.
I have never heard anyone i Denmark mentioning a Rostock-Gedser connection, and it is not on the table.

It is not the Danish Government funding the fixed Femern link. The fixed link will be constructed by a joint -stock company, in which the Danish Government has invested Eur 20 mio. The company will raise capital (borrow money) on the international capital market, and toll will be used to recover the debt.

The Danish Government has however decided to replace the old bridge (the one you are mentioning?) across Storstrømmen from Zealand to Falster with a new combined rail and road bridge, to be complete in 2020/21.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by firefly »

Nikolaj wrote:I have never heard anyone i Denmark mentioning a Rostock-Gedser connection, and it is not on the table.
Rostock-Gedser was seriously considered as it has several advantageous over the chosen Fehmarn link. It was finally dropped though.
Nikolaj wrote:The Danish Government has however decided to replace the old bridge (the one you are mentioning?) across Storstrømmen from Zealand to Falster with a new combined rail and road bridge, to be complete in 2020/21.
Similar efforts are needed on the southern approach to the Fehmarn link. Yet, it is rather likely that very little will be done. There is a chance that the Danes may rue the choice of the Fehmarn route for the fixed link. Germany is rather slow to deliver the approaching capacities to big scale transportation project of neighbouring countries in recent years.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Nikolaj »

firefly wrote:
Nikolaj wrote:I have never heard anyone i Denmark mentioning a Rostock-Gedser connection, and it is not on the table.
Rostock-Gedser was seriously considered as it has several advantageous over the chosen Fehmarn link. It was finally dropped though.
Nikolaj wrote:The Danish Government has however decided to replace the old bridge (the one you are mentioning?) across Storstrømmen from Zealand to Falster with a new combined rail and road bridge, to be complete in 2020/21.
Similar efforts are needed on the southern approach to the Fehmarn link. Yet, it is rather likely that very little will be done. There is a chance that the Danes may rue the choice of the Fehmarn route for the fixed link. Germany is rather slow to deliver the approaching capacities to big scale transportation project of neighbouring countries in recent years.
Sorry to say it but no. A Gedser-Rostock fixed link was not considered in Denmark at all. I know that Rostock-Gedser has been mentioned in various international forums, but never seriously considered in Denmark. Femern via Rødby-Puutgarden - was the only option under consideration. First of all because Femern (Rødby-Puttgarden) has been on the drawing board from before the fall of the Iron Curtain (Rostock was behind the Iron Curtain), secondly because the length from Rostock to Gedser is more than double than that of Rødby-Puttgarden. Thirdly because the traffic flow from Rostock to Gedser (and return) is much minor to that of Rødby-Puttgarden. In 2010 (the last year where i have been able to find numbers) the AADT on the ferries from Rostock to Gedser was 972 whereas the same number on Rødby-Puttgarden was 5.460. Forthly the the main railway link from Scandinavia is going to Hamburg and not to Berlin. In fact the rail connection from the Danish main- network towards Gedser was closed about a couple of years ago, and the direct link from Copenhahen towards Berlin was closed years before that. The direct rail service from Copenhagen to Berlin was serviced bye the East German Railways DR during the cold war era, for some strange kind of reasons (very few passengers, but closed after the German re-unification for lack of passengers

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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by J--M--B »

This article on the project a couple of days ago.
The Tunnel Project That Could Reshape the European Map

The long-planned Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link between Denmark and Germany moved one step closer to reality this month.

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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by murphaph »

A recent video (German, with English subtitles) about this project which is finally really getting going this year. Projected completion date of 2029. We'll see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP0BElr ... nnel=DEGES

It seems the B207 is in fact going to be upgraded to "Yellow motorway" standard initially (mostly offline new build) and it may well end up as an extension of the A1 if the comments are to be believed.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by ravenbluemoon »

Excellent stuff. Appears to be a similar construction method to the Öresund bridge further north.

It'll be a bit of a game changer for public transport - if timings are favourable, Gothenburg to Hamburg could be under 5 hours by train, making it much more worthwhile.
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by Al__S »

one oddity is that the train service on the ferry has already ceased- through service by the Great Belt link is faster than the route using the ferry was, and the tunnel portals will be built when the approach tracks into the ferry terminals are/were. If you want to get a car ferry that also takes trains, the only all-year service left is in Italy
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Re: Femern Fixed Link

Post by mikehindsonevans »

I look forward to travelling the new link, although it won't hold a candle to memories of the sea journey to visit the in-laws in Copenhagen in the 1980s and 1990s.
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