[Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Going on holiday? Just returned with pictures or news? Found an interesting website? Post everything international in here.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
mubd1234
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 20:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

[Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by mubd1234 »

WestConnex
http://www.westconnex.com.au/

This project has three stages.

The first stage involves widening the M4 to at least 4 lanes in each direction in the existing section, as well as extending the M4 east about 3.5km towards the city centre through a tunnel which is to be three lanes wide in each direction. There will be ramps to end at Parramatta Road/Great Western Highway and on the City West Link, which is an existing bypass of Parramatta Road through suburbs like Lewisham and Annandale. It's essentially the point where the Inner-West and southern CBD traffic which uses Parramatta Road meets with Northern Suburbs and central CBD traffic which uses the City West Link.

The second stage involves widening the M5 East Freeway. The existing motorway is 4km tunnel, 4km above ground motorway. It was originally designed (2 lanes in each direction) for volumes that assumed there would be a toll in place, but the government cancelled the toll plans and from day one motorists have counted on it being extremely congested in the tunnel due to high traffic volumes, steep gradients and no breakdown lanes. The plans call for widening the above ground freeway to 4 lanes in each direction and building another tunnel to add to the existing one, which adds up to 4 lanes in each direction. Then, a new route deviation will be added, an above ground viaduct linking to Sydney Airport. This is the beginning of stage 3 of the project.

The third stage involves connecting the above two stages through a tunnel which heads east from Stage 1 underneath Lewisham and Camperdown, then turns south under the University of Sydney and surfaces near Sydney Park, continuing south to the Airport viaduct constructed in Stage 2.

The projected cost is $10 billion, which is to be expected considering the huge amount of tunneling required. The first two stages are due to be complete around 2019-2020. The third stage is due to be complete a few years later. It will be a toll road, using electronic tag collection.

NorthConnex
http://www.northconnex.com.au

This tunnel connects the M1 Pacific Motorway and M2 Hills Motorway. Currently, the M1 ends at Wahroonga and southbound traffic diverges between the Pacific Highway (A1) for the City, Northern, Eastern and Southern Suburbs and Pennant Hills Road (A28) for the Western Suburbs.

It will be built for three lanes in each direction, but lanes will be painted with only two lanes and a breakdown lane at first.

The NorthConnex tunnel will generally follow the A28 corridor underground to reach the M2. Traffic currently using the A1 to get to the Pacific Motorway will generally be encouraged to continue using that route, as there will be no direct east-facing slip road to and from the NorthConnex tunnel. Presumably this is because traffic will be far less likely to pay the current >$9 toll for the journey on the M2 and Lane Cove Tunnel from the Warringah and Gore Hill Freeways. The Pacific Highway diverges just before the beginning of the tollway corridors, so there is no toll to pay if drivers use that road.

There's some speculation that the NorthConnex tunnel will be built with provisions for an extension under the Dundas Valley to the A6 at Kissing Point Road.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

These projects are now under construction, and the first component (M4 widening and tolling) has been completed. These tunnels will add to Sydney's already rather impressive collection of underground urban freeways.
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Thu Jun 18, 2020 04:13, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mubd1234
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 20:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by mubd1234 »

To give you an idea of the scale of the Westconnex project, here's a map of what the Rozelle Interchange will look like. Keep in mind, the dotted lines are all underground.;

Image
(click to make big)

Despite the route being mostly underground, the typical inner city NIMBY anti-road crusaders have been out in force trying to stop the project.

The first stage was the M4 Widening, with involved widening the existing M4 Motorway from 3 lanes in each direction (with a 2 lane bottleneck over the James Ruse Drive interchange), to four lanes in each direction (with a 3 lane bottleneck over Silverwater Road). The widening in the area around James Ruse Drive was done in a slightly unconventional way - the existing 3+3 viaduct was converted to a 4+2 viaduct, with an additional two lane viaduct on the southern side providing an "express" arrangement. Not particularly good for traffic flow, as it means that exiting traffic must use the third lane from the left in order to exit onto James Ruse Drive.

Image
(click for larger)

And even at the end of all this, all citybound traffic is dumped directly onto Parramatta Road and left to use a very inadequate arterial road system to access the city and surrounds - at least for a couple of years until the other stages of Westconnex are built.

Parramatta Road is a very unpleasant place to be as a pedestrian. It is filled with car dealerships and industrial buildings, but could be so much better if they removed all that traffic.
User avatar
Truvelo
Member
Posts: 17456
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 21:10
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Truvelo »

That's quite an impressive junction for an urban area in this day and age. Surely the cost of shoving it all underground is going to be higher than purchasing property?
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Bryn666 »

Truvelo wrote:That's quite an impressive junction for an urban area in this day and age. Surely the cost of shoving it all underground is going to be higher than purchasing property?
No one wants to live next to flyovers so it has to be underground.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
sydneynick
Member
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:07
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by sydneynick »

Truvelo wrote:That's quite an impressive junction for an urban area in this day and age. Surely the cost of shoving it all underground is going to be higher than purchasing property?
In inner Sydney, one house on a small block of land can be worth more than $1 million.
I can always tell if politicians are lying. Their lips move.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

Another stage of the WestConnex project, the M8 motorway from Kingsgrove to St Peters, opened early this month. In the first post of this thread it is the second component: widening and supplementing the existing M5 East tunnel.

The new tunnel is twin-bore, initially opened as D2 but eventually to be D3 and D5. The tunnelling is deep in sandstone, constructed (like most Sydney tunnels) by road-header rather than by TBM. It will be connected northwards around 2023 to the M4, and eventually will be extended NE as M8 to Sydney's northern beaches area and southwards as M6 to the southern suburbs. All this underground.

My favourite part of the project is St Peters Interchange. Here the M8 feeds now into SE Sydney's fairly strong street network, and later onto a short new motorway (named 'Sydney Gateway') leading southwards to the airport. The interchange, which was constructed imaginatively in a deep disused garbage dump, is a 4-level stack with five arms. Because every arm-to-arm turn is not required, there are 12 paths through the interchange (3+3+2+2+2), just as for the usual 'Maltese Cross' stack of intersecting motorways (3+3+3+3). The 4th and 5th arms will not be completed for another 2-3 years.

M8 St Peters Interchange.jpg

Here are some links, from which you can explore other aspects of the project.

Main project home page : https://www.westconnex.com.au/
Interchange image : https://www.aurecongroup.com/-/media/im ... change.jpg

EDIT:
Here's a great drive-through video from opening night. Not mine, unfortunately, but it's on Youtube, posted by 'Great Aussie Drives'. If this is someone I sort-of know on 'Aussie Highways' discussion group - my apologies :(
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBF2sAToU2g

edited Feb 2022 to remove dead URL
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Sun Feb 27, 2022 04:41, edited 3 times in total.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

NorthConnex, the latest of Sydney's underground tollways, will open next Saturday, October 31. It connects the M1 and M2 motorways. Or put another way, it links the Pacific Motorway that leads north to Brisbane, with the Sydney Orbital Motorway.

The main website is here: https://www.northconnex.com.au/
Construction information: https://www.northconnex.com.au/construction
Project updates, maps, etc: https://construct.northconnex.com.au/

EDIT:
Lots of drive-throughs now on Youtube - just search northconnex
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Thu Nov 05, 2020 00:50, edited 1 time in total.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

The main contract has just been let for the Sydney Gateway. This project will improve road access to the airport terminals. It consists of about 5km of mainly-elevated freeways, extending Westconnex southwards from the St Peters stack interchange. Early works are underway and completion is set for 2024.

Website: https://v2.communityanalytics.com.au/rms/sydney-gateway.

Gateway-map-thumb.jpg
User avatar
ChrisH
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 3973
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:29

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by ChrisH »

Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 14:38 NorthConnex, the latest of Sydney's underground tollways, will open next Saturday, October 31. It connects the M1 and M2 motorways. Or put another way, it links the Pacific Motorway that leads north to Brisbane, with the Sydney Orbital Motorway.

The main website is here: https://www.northconnex.com.au/
Construction information: https://www.northconnex.com.au/construction
Project updates, maps, etc: https://construct.northconnex.com.au/
Does the NorthConnex have a road number? I can't see one anywhere. It looks like a great project and AU$3bn for a 9km D3 tunnel with 8 slips seems like quite good value to me as well.
User avatar
sydneynick
Member
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:07
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by sydneynick »

Now that North Connex has opened, it is possible to drive on motorway from just west of Ballarat in Victoria to just west of Newcastle in NSW: some 1100 km. It will cost just over $20 for the 56 km bypassing Sydney, but all the rest is free.

When the Coffs Harbour bypass (14 km of very expensive road) is completed in 2024 (or thereabouts), it will be possible to drive on motorway from just west of Ballarat to a bit south of Gympie, apart from a very short stretch of undivided road near Hexham (west of Newcastle). This will be more than 2000 km, with the only tolls in Sydney and for the Gateway Bridge in Brisbane.

It seems that North Connex has not yet been allocated a number. I have not seen any number in the media reports and there is no number on Google Maps. I have not yet driven on it, so I don't know what is on the road signs. The lowest available number would be M10, which might make some kind of sense for an extension of M1.
I can always tell if politicians are lying. Their lips move.
crazyknightsfan
Member
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 22:32
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by crazyknightsfan »

No route number for NorthConnex, an absolutely laughable situation.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

sydneynick wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 01:17 The lowest available number would be M10, which might make some kind of sense for an extension of M1.
What kind of sense? Because it's 'M1' with a zero added ?

This is a southwards extension of Pacific Motorway, so it must eventually be M1, despite M28 and M6 having been plausibly suggested.

Why is it currently left un-numbered? Various possibilities occur to me. Just one is that, for some people, it's not yet the best way into Sydney CBD. Signing it as M1 might cause casual drivers to use it as such, leading to claims of Transurban trying to trick people into paying the fairly high toll.

While having no number is sort-of laughable, it's not actually detrimental in any way unless you're road geeks. We are, of course.
crazyknightsfan
Member
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 22:32
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by crazyknightsfan »

Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 01:25While having no number is sort-of laughable, it's not actually detrimental in any way unless you're road geeks. We are, of course.
I disagree with this - of all route numbers, motorway numbers are the most important for unfamiliar driver navigation. If the major link from the north to the Sydney Orbital and through Sydney isn't going to be numbered then why number any of the motorways at all?

It should be M7, and was likely going to be M7 until either Transurban or NSW Govt political interference occurred. One issue arising from the adoption of Motorway numbers in Sydney by the general public is that they are treated like a motorway number rather than a route number - i.e. M7 can't go from Wahroonga to Casula (like Metroad 7 and State Route 77 did before it) because that embraces three separate motorways with three separate tolls to be paid.
User avatar
sydneynick
Member
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:07
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by sydneynick »

Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 01:25 This is a southwards extension of Pacific Motorway, so it must eventually be M1, despite M28 and M6 having been plausibly suggested.
This would be contrary to the way that NSW numbers roads. A route is allocated a number, and various parts of it are allocated the prefix of M, A or B, depending on the quality and importance of that part. The A1/M1 route starts at the Queensland border as the Pacific Motorway, goes through Sydney via the Harbour Tunnel, and continues to the Victorian border as the Princes Highway. It would make no sense to have an M1 spur from Wahroonga to Carlingford.

I suspect that this anomaly arises from the fact that NorthConnex was not devised by Transport for NSW. It was an "unsolicited proposal" from the toll operators, Transurban. Their interest was in channeling more traffic onto their M2 and M7, and not consistency with the systems used for other roads.
I can always tell if politicians are lying. Their lips move.
crazyknightsfan
Member
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 22:32
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by crazyknightsfan »

sydneynick wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 01:23
Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 01:25 This is a southwards extension of Pacific Motorway, so it must eventually be M1, despite M28 and M6 having been plausibly suggested.
This would be contrary to the way that NSW numbers roads. A route is allocated a number, and various parts of it are allocated the prefix of M, A or B, depending on the quality and importance of that part. The A1/M1 route starts at the Queensland border as the Pacific Motorway, goes through Sydney via the Harbour Tunnel, and continues to the Victorian border as the Princes Highway. It would make no sense to have an M1 spur from Wahroonga to Carlingford.

I suspect that this anomaly arises from the fact that NorthConnex was not devised by Transport for NSW. It was an "unsolicited proposal" from the toll operators, Transurban. Their interest was in channeling more traffic onto their M2 and M7, and not consistency with the systems used for other roads.
It's quite plausible that NorthConnex will become part of M1 one day, e.g. after the direct ramps are built to/from M2 east - this would be paired with renumbering the M2 east of NorthConnex as M1, and renumbering west of NorthConnex as M7.

There were two direction signs installed at Pearces Corner with A11 on them for Pacific Highway with the focal point 'Pymble' - it's possible that the intention was for the above to occur - and Pacific Hwy to be renumbered A11 - but either Transurban or NSW Govt baulked at the cost and/or political ramifications of the renumbering. These signs have now been replaced with signs showing A1/Sydney on Pacific Hwy.
User avatar
ChrisH
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 3973
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:29

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by ChrisH »

sydneynick wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 01:23
Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 01:25 This is a southwards extension of Pacific Motorway, so it must eventually be M1, despite M28 and M6 having been plausibly suggested.
This would be contrary to the way that NSW numbers roads. A route is allocated a number, and various parts of it are allocated the prefix of M, A or B, depending on the quality and importance of that part. The A1/M1 route starts at the Queensland border as the Pacific Motorway, goes through Sydney via the Harbour Tunnel, and continues to the Victorian border as the Princes Highway. It would make no sense to have an M1 spur from Wahroonga to Carlingford.

I suspect that this anomaly arises from the fact that NorthConnex was not devised by Transport for NSW. It was an "unsolicited proposal" from the toll operators, Transurban. Their interest was in channeling more traffic onto their M2 and M7, and not consistency with the systems used for other roads.
To me it looks like it should be the M7, so that the "Sydney bypass" is M7 from north to south.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

crazyknightsfan wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 06:34
Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 01:25 This is a southwards extension of Pacific Motorway, so it must eventually be M1, despite M28 and M6 having been plausibly suggested.
It's quite plausible that NorthConnex will become part of M1 one day, e.g. after the direct ramps are built to/from M2 east - this would be paired with renumbering the M2 east of NorthConnex as M1, and renumbering west of NorthConnex as M7.
That's why I said "must eventually".

I believe there is a plan for a rational M-number scheme that the Sydney authorities would like to reach in the rather distant future. The steps are tricky because the path isn't linear. However, for a start, since Transurban operates all (?) of Sydney's tollways, the irrationality of M7 abutting M2 is already clear. Why not just use M7?

To Nick's point: yes, route-1 through Sydney is currently logical. It has M-prefixed pieces separated by an A-prefixed piece. That's OK: as you said, it's the way AU numbering is supposed to work (contrasting with UK practise). But eventually, when Sydney's next few tunnels and tollways are completed, the Pacific Hwy A1 southwards to Lane Cove will be massively overloaded unless a considerable proportion of traffic uses NorthConnex instead. City-bound traffic in the tunnel will turn eastwards at Pennant Hills onto M2-now/M1-then, using direct ramps still to be built. At that time, NorthConnex should become M1, and A1 be renamed. All motorways nicely joined up.

In summary, I think a NorthConnex number has been omitted so that it doesn't need to be changed later.

To CrazyKnight's point: I'd prefer it to be numbered too, but I don't think the lack will spoil anyone's navigation as long as destinations are signed well.
crazyknightsfan
Member
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 22:32
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by crazyknightsfan »

Peter Freeman wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:09I believe there is a plan for a rational M-number scheme that the Sydney authorities would like to reach in the rather distant future. The steps are tricky because the path isn't linear. However, for a start, since Transurban operates all (?) of Sydney's tollways, the irrationality of M7 abutting M2 is already clear. Why not just use M7?
The main stumbling block IMO is the myriad of separate tolling arrangements that apply to individual motorways. "M2" is associated with a particular toll, "M7" the same. If a sensible renumbering is to occur, it probably coincides with distance-based tolling across the whole network as a replacement for the individual tolling contracts.
Peter Freeman
Member
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia

Re: [Sydney, Australia] - WestConnex and NorthConnex

Post by Peter Freeman »

ChrisH wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 08:50 It [NorthConnex] looks like a great project and AU$3bn for a 9km D3 tunnel with 8 slips seems like quite good value to me as well.
By avoiding property acquisition, tunnelling for toll motorways has become cost-effective in expensive city areas.
Post Reply