Italian Road Trip ... again

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brombeer
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

Post by brombeer »

Owain wrote:So they have actually built it, then? I thought they'd given up on the A31!
I suspect that you read that about the Northern extension of the A31 to the A22. The concessionaire of the A31 would love to build it, the Italian government is happy to support the plan, the regional government of Veneto is for it, but the Trentino region has a veto and is against it. In recent years, I have seen that plan being abandoned, brought back up again and abandoned. I believe we are currently back at the old status quo that there are live plans that are blocked by Trentino.

The Southern extension of the A31 has been a largely uncontroversial project, hardly reported on. Except that it did make headlines when the construction phase was interrupted for a while because of alleged dumping of toxic waste underneath the new road.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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Thanks for info, brombeer. Will they connect A31 to the A13 eventually, as originally planned? I guess with the ss434 that is not really important.

I am visiting Ferrara in May, although I am approaching from Ravenna and proceeding towards Modena in my 'tour'. The A31 will have to wait until another time to get driven, but I should at least be able to add the A13 to the list of autostrade I've driven on.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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I'm not aware of any such plans indeed.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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Fans of Italy, think of me tomorrow: Pisa to Ravenna via the ss67.

I am praying they give me the Alfa Giulietta I've asked for. If it turns out to be a VW Golf, I will hate it and sulk.

EDIT: Why I can't wait ... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@43.94169 ... hfRG5g!2e0
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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Owain wrote:Fans of Italy, think of me tomorrow: Pisa to Ravenna via the ss67.

I am praying they give me the Alfa Giulietta I've asked for. If it turns out to be a VW Golf, I will hate it and sulk.

EDIT: Why I can't wait ... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@43.94169 ... hfRG5g!2e0

So was it the Golf or the Alfa? No offence but I'd sulk if it were either car but then again I can sulk for England.
..
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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chris486 wrote:So was it the Golf or the Alfa?
:D :D :D
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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And here it is, parked at the very same curve that I posted in the Google Maps link above. This is somewhere between Firenze and Forlì on the ss67.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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I've found some more road-related pics from that trip.

The first is an abandoned village up in the Tuscan hills, as seen from the ss12 between Lucca and Modena. Abandoned villages are a not-uncommon sight in the hillier parts of rural Italy.

The second is a Casa Cantoniera, a very common sight on the strade statali, Italy's equivalent of A roads, and they exist in various states of repair. This one is on the descent from the mountain retreat of Abetone, on the Tuscan-Emilian frontier, as the ss12 winds its way down through the Appenini towards Lucca.

As a historian I have some hopes of pursuing a research project on the roads in Fascist Italy, and if I do, these places are sure to feature in it.
I'm afraid the only web link I know of that explains what these buildings were is in Italian. So far as I know, when Mussolini had the Italian roads classified in the 1920s, these places were built to house the crews who worked to maintain them, as well as any travellers who were in need of an overnight stop providing food and shelter. Even though you'd have had to be super-rich to own a car in 1920s Italy, hotels would have been few and far between in the countryside, so you might have had to slum it with the commoners in one of these places. It takes ages to drive around Italy on the strade statali even in a modern car (and even with me at the wheel!), so I'd imagine that they must have been welcome refuges for motorists - and travellers on foot, horse or donkey - back then. I'd like to take pictures of them whenever I see them, but if I did that I'd be stopping all the time!

I love the way they have the historic name of the route, and the location along that route given in kilometres, etched into the side of the building. This one says "SS12 dell'Abetone e del Brennero", the number and historic name of that road.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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When I was working in Italy, I noticed that a number of road hoardings advertised various establishments (garages, restaurants etc) by reference to a road number and a kilometre location. For example, I occasionally patronised this restaurant. It was advertised as being at km 19.7 on the SS4. The road in the picture is the SS4 while the small marker post at the edge of the road has the markings "VII" and "19". (When in Rome I suppose ....).
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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Vierwielen wrote:When I was working in Italy, I noticed that a number of road hoardings advertised various establishments (garages, restaurants etc) by reference to a road number and a kilometre location. For example, I occasionally patronised this restaurant. It was advertised as being at km 19.7 on the SS4. The road in the picture is the SS4 while the small marker post at the edge of the road has the markings "VII" and "19". (When in Rome I suppose ....).

Yes, they do. I also recall my brother-in-law navigating by telling me that it was "5.7km to the exit for the SR2" or whatever. I navigate by just driving until I see the sign for the road, or by using landmarks like bridges, a church, sign for another road, etc., but he wanted to use the trip computer to tell us when we'd driven exactly 5.7km, and that it must be time to turn off. My mind doesn't work like that at all!

I will have driven past that restaurant, once, because I have driven the first part of the ss4. Another road trip I want to do is to pick up a car at Ciampino, and drive the whole ss4 to Ascoli Piceno, where there is a spa resort in a converted monastery.

I'd enjoy the drive; my wife would enjoy the spa.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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Vierwielen wrote:A number of road hoardings advertised various establishments (garages, restaurants etc) by reference to a road number and a kilometre location. For example, I occasionally patronised this restaurant. It was advertised as being at km 19.7 on the SS4.
Out-of-town places in Italy and many other Roman countries often have official postal addresses consisting of a kilometre value and the route number. I suspect its use on signs is much more a reference to the address than an attempt to make motorists look very carefully for that 19 VII sign that will have been much less visible than the very establishment.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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brombeer wrote:
Vierwielen wrote:A number of road hoardings advertised various establishments (garages, restaurants etc) by reference to a road number and a kilometre location. For example, I occasionally patronised this restaurant. It was advertised as being at km 19.7 on the SS4.
Out-of-town places in Italy and many other Roman countries often have official postal addresses consisting of a kilometre value and the route number. I suspect its use on signs is much more a reference to the address than an attempt to make motorists look very carefully for that 19 VII sign that will have been much less visible than the very establishment.
I disagree. What I did not tell you is that whole kilometres are very clearly marked, for example this 17 km sign near Assissi. If you are trying to find the restaurant at kilometre 19.7 and you are driving out of Rome, you drive normally until you see the 19 kilometre sign, then all that you need do is to drive another 700 metres. You need only look at the small signs on the last few hundred metres. The small signs are also useful if yo do not know exactly what you are looking for.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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Vierwielen wrote:I disagree. What I did not tell you is that whole kilometres are very clearly marked, for example this 17 km sign near Assissi. If you are trying to find the restaurant at kilometre 19.7 and you are driving out of Rome, you drive normally until you see the 19 kilometre sign, then all that you need do is to drive another 700 metres. You need only look at the small signs on the last few hundred metres. The small signs are also useful if yo do not know exactly what you are looking for.
Fair enough - I should have been more precise. What I had wanted to say was that these are primarily addresses and therefore not necessarily a way of giving directions. But once you've got an address like that in a country with big visible kilometre posts, surely the big kilometre posts become a way of easily finding that out-of-town place.

In many other countries, you would have had an address like 1234 State Route 56. And if visitors needed to be guided somehow, your advertising sign would probably say 'three kilometres after Woop Woop'.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

Post by Owain »

It's probably a bit of both, then. The kilometre appears in the address, and because it's in the address and the markers exist on the roads, the businesses advertise using the kilometres.

The Italians provide you with an impressive amount of roadside information (often too much!). I always feel a nice warm glow when I drive over the border from France or Switzerland, and I see something like: "ANAS / ss25"
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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I'm always particularly stunned by how the Italians concentrate their information on those small kilometer posts discussed a few days back. Hardly legible when passing at speed, like here and here. While in the meantime proper legible distance signs are an anomaly ...

But indeed it gives something of a warm glow when you can read that you find yourself on the Statale 38 dello Stelvio. 8-)
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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brombeer wrote: Hardly legible when passing at speed
Some, you simply have to stop in order to make any sense of, whether they'd been put there by the state/region, or by private businesses.
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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In honour of the greatest little hire car I've ever driven ...
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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... it was an absolute hoot, and deserves to be immortalised here!
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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A bit of understeer in those last two shots? :P :lol:
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Re: Italian Road Trip ... again

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AndrewGPaul wrote:A bit of understeer in those last two shots? :P :lol:
Looks like a remake of https://t.co/8ifadw05Pa
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