Italian Road Trip ... again

[Owain]

Lovely report, makes me rather miss my mark II Clio that took me all over Germany, France, Italy and everywhere in between. I bought her with 104,000 miles on the clock, if I had known then what I know now about cars I might not have, but I got so many memories out of her. I scrapped her at 160,000 as it was too much of an insurance nightmare to bring her over to Switzerland for a year but I am starting to regret it.

Thanks! Getting too attached to a car can be problematic...

Looking at this thread again has got me into planning another trip. I have a dilemma though - take the car I've driven to Italy seven times before (171k miles on the clock), or take the newer one (46k miles) which is mechanically identical but at present an unknown quantity in terms of reliability.

It's a tough choice! I guess I could just book the trip and wait until it's time to go before deciding which car to take.

Anyway, partly because of budget and partly because of my concern about having to abandon a Rover 75 in Italy(!), I think this trip will just scratch the surface. At present, it's looking like an Alpine adventure, and nothing more. Good enough for making use of my Italian Job soundtrack CD, and for stocking up on Italian wine.

I've discovered that there is a Newhaven-Dieppe ferry which is scarcely more expensive than Dover-Calais, but which is possible to use as an overnight stay with cabin. If I use this, I can aim to stop in Dijon on the way out, so that my travelling companion (who is currently taking an MRes in food history) can visit the Musée de la Moutarde! We can then cross Switzerland on Route 9, entering Italy through the Simplon Pass of Orient Express fame. For many years I've always wanted to stay at Agriturismo La Tensa in the mountains above Domodossola. We can use this as a base for exploring Ticino - the Italian-speaking part of Switzerland - and the Italian exclave of Campione d'Italia; there doesn't seem to be anything there, but I want to go because it's part of Italy! I can also use Domodossola as a base for taking Jessica to Milan, where she's never been.

A long weekend there could be followed by a brief stay in one of the luxury hotels high in the Alps near Oulx; they are much cheaper in August than they are during the skiing season, but the facilities and views will still be excellent. This will serve as a base for visiting the Sacra San Michele, which is perched on an outlying Alp(!) just west of Turin, and which I've driven past several times but never driven up to see the views. We can also head up to Mont Cenis, which I've driven over before, but which I'd like Jessica to see because it was the location of the first railway linking France and Italy (fell railway opened 1868; tunnel in 1871). It is a fantasic drive!

The plan is to then return from Oulx to Dieppe in one day - just over 500 miles - and to do it on 15 August; this is a massive national holiday in France, and the last time I drove across the country on that day I only saw about three other cars!

So, I think this is the plan. I can't let the year pass without driving to Italy. I used to go all the time, but now I'm lucky to get just a couple of trips. Getting divorced didn't help, but hey ... my ex-wife now has a boyfriend who lives in Milan, and she flies over to visit him every fortnight.

[Norfolktolancashire]

After my first trip to the Alps last autumn, I was impressed by the A40 autoroute through to the French side of Mont Blanc tunnel. Lucky with the blue sky all week, I could view all the mountains with no weather problems and in October the hotel near Chamonix was a silly cheap price with a view straight up to Mont Blanc summit itself.
I think a trip that way again is on the cards, with relatives near Milan, it is a good enough excuse!

[Glenn A]

How much does it cost to drive on an autostrada these days? I have heard they're not particular cheap and fuel is expensive, but the 130 km/h speed limit makes them far less stressful than other roads, which can be slow and more prone to accidents.

[Owain]

How much does it cost to drive on an autostrada these days? I have heard they're not particular cheap and fuel is expensive, but the 130 km/h speed limit makes them far less stressful than other roads, which can be slow and more prone to accidents.

If you wanted to drive from Turin to Milan (126 km), your toll would be €16.80 each way.

For Milan to Florence (290 km), your toll would be €22.40.

From Milan to Bari (865 km) - almost the length of the entire country - would cost you €64.40.

They are a lot cheaper than the French autoroutes.

Fuel, however, is much more expensive than in France; fuel prices are almost as high as those in the UK (although diesel is cheaper than petrol).

Here's their website, which has quite a good route-planner.

[Glenn A]

How much does it cost to drive on an autostrada these days? I have heard they're not particular cheap and fuel is expensive, but the 130 km/h speed limit makes them far less stressful than other roads, which can be slow and more prone to accidents.

If you wanted to drive from Turin to Milan (126 km), your toll would be €16.80 each way.

For Milan to Florence (290 km), your toll would be €22.40.

From Milan to Bari (865 km) - almost the length of the entire country - would cost you €64.40.

They are a lot cheaper than the French autoroutes.

Fuel, however, is much more expensive than in France; fuel prices are almost as high as those in the UK (although diesel is cheaper than petrol).

Here's their website, which has quite a good route-planner.

Milan to Florence, which is probably a similar distance as Newcastle to Sheffield, works out at £ 20. Not bad, considering you can cruise at 130 km/h and the autostrada avoids the chaotic local roads and town centre.

[Owain]

Milan to Florence, which is probably a similar distance as Newcastle to Sheffield, works out at £ 20. Not bad, considering you can cruise at 130 km/h and the autostrada avoids the chaotic local roads and town centre.

In reality, you can cruise at a lot more than 130 km/h! When I drove the A14 from Bari one afternoon, I got as far as Pescara before I really had to slow down for traffic.

In the UK if you were to drive at 90mph on a motorway, you'd be in lane 3 almost continually. In Italy, if you were to drive at the same speed on the autostrada, you'd spend a lot of time in lane 1 being overtaken by faster traffic!

Some motorways - mostly in the north - have the 'Safety Tutor' system to monitor average speeds, but considering the extent to which the speed limit appears to be ignored by half the drivers, I'm never sure how effective it is.

[Glenn A]

Milan to Florence, which is probably a similar distance as Newcastle to Sheffield, works out at £ 20. Not bad, considering you can cruise at 130 km/h and the autostrada avoids the chaotic local roads and town centre.

In reality, you can cruise at a lot more than 130 km/h! When I drove the A14 from Bari one afternoon, I got as far as Pescara before I really had to slow down for traffic.

In the UK if you were to drive at 90mph on a motorway, you'd be in lane 3 almost continually. In Italy, if you were to drive at the same speed on the autostrada, you'd spend a lot of time in lane 1 being overtaken by faster traffic!

Some motorways - mostly in the north - have the 'Safety Tutor' system to monitor average speeds, but considering the extent to which the speed limit appears to be ignored by half the drivers, I'm never sure how effective it is.

I did read on some rural stretches of the autostrade, the speed limit is 150 km/h( 93 mph).

[Owain]

I did read on some rural stretches of the autostrade, the speed limit is 150 km/h( 93 mph).

I believe they used to have different speed limits for different classes of vehicle, with higher limits being set for cars with larger engine capacities. I'm not sure when that ended, but it was certainly gone by the time I first drove to Italy (2010). It is now officially 130km/h across the country, except where the antiquated nature of the autostrade necessitates a lower limit (e.g. much of the A7, A10 and A12 in Liguria have 80km/h limits), not that anybody seems to bother policing them...

[Octaviadriver]

I believe they used to have different speed limits for different classes of vehicle, with higher limits being set for cars with larger engine capacities. I'm not sure when that ended, but it was certainly gone by the time I first drove to Italy (2010). It is now officially 130km/h across the country, except where the antiquated nature of the autostrade necessitates a lower limit (e.g. much of the A7, A10 and A12 in Liguria have 80km/h limits), not that anybody seems to bother policing them...

I can remember driving in Italy in the 1970s. The first blanket speed limit was introduced in November 1973 during the oil crisis and it was 120 kph. In October 1977, it was increased or reduced as follows; for cars of 1300 cc and over to 140 kph, 900 cc to 1299 cc 130 kph, 600 cc to 899 cc 110 kph and 599 cc or less 90 kph. In July 1988, it changed to cars of over 600 cc 110 kph and 599 cc or less 902 kph. In September 1989, it changed yet again to cars over 1100 cc 130 kph and 1099 cc or less 110 kph. I've no record after this and don't know when the limit changed to 130 kph for all cars regardless of engine size.

I can imagine it wouldn't have been easy for police to know if someone was speeding if a car was available with different engine sizes. I can see anyone with the smaller engines swiping badges from cars with the bigger engines! I wonder what would happen if you rebored a typical Fiat engine of that time that was 1290 cc and so it became bigger than 1300 cc? Nowadays I guess the engine size can be checked online by the police, but that information wouldn't be easily available back then.

[Owain]

I believe they used to have different speed limits for different classes of vehicle, with higher limits being set for cars with larger engine capacities. I'm not sure when that ended, but it was certainly gone by the time I first drove to Italy (2010). It is now officially 130km/h across the country, except where the antiquated nature of the autostrade necessitates a lower limit (e.g. much of the A7, A10 and A12 in Liguria have 80km/h limits), not that anybody seems to bother policing them...

I can remember driving in Italy in the 1970s. The first blanket speed limit was introduced in November 1973 during the oil crisis and it was 120 kph. In October 1977, it was increased or reduced as follows; for cars of 1300 cc and over to 140 kph, 900 cc to 1299 cc 130 kph, 600 cc to 899 cc 110 kph and 599 cc or less 90 kph. In July 1988, it changed to cars of over 600 cc 110 kph and 599 cc or less 902 kph. In September 1989, it changed yet again to cars over 1100 cc 130 kph and 1099 cc or less 110 kph. I've no record after this and don't know when the limit changed to 130 kph for all cars regardless of engine size.

I can imagine it wouldn't have been easy for police to know if someone was speeding if a car was available with different engine sizes. I can see anyone with the smaller engines swiping badges from cars with the bigger engines! I wonder what would happen if you rebored a typical Fiat engine of that time that was 1290 cc and so it became bigger than 1300 cc? Nowadays I guess the engine size can be checked online by the police, but that information wouldn't be easily available back then.

I knew it! ... Thanks for providing that information.

As for the policing, I honestly don't think they have ever been that bothered.

[JosephA22]

I believe they used to have different speed limits for different classes of vehicle, with higher limits being set for cars with larger engine capacities. I'm not sure when that ended, but it was certainly gone by the time I first drove to Italy (2010). It is now officially 130km/h across the country, except where the antiquated nature of the autostrade necessitates a lower limit (e.g. much of the A7, A10 and A12 in Liguria have 80km/h limits), not that anybody seems to bother policing them...

I can remember driving in Italy in the 1970s. The first blanket speed limit was introduced in November 1973 during the oil crisis and it was 120 kph. In October 1977, it was increased or reduced as follows; for cars of 1300 cc and over to 140 kph, 900 cc to 1299 cc 130 kph, 600 cc to 899 cc 110 kph and 599 cc or less 90 kph. In July 1988, it changed to cars of over 600 cc 110 kph and 599 cc or less 902 kph. In September 1989, it changed yet again to cars over 1100 cc 130 kph and 1099 cc or less 110 kph. I've no record after this and don't know when the limit changed to 130 kph for all cars regardless of engine size.

I can imagine it wouldn't have been easy for police to know if someone was speeding if a car was available with different engine sizes. I can see anyone with the smaller engines swiping badges from cars with the bigger engines! I wonder what would happen if you rebored a typical Fiat engine of that time that was 1290 cc and so it became bigger than 1300 cc? Nowadays I guess the engine size can be checked online by the police, but that information wouldn't be easily available back then.

I knew it! ... Thanks for providing that information.

As for the policing, I honestly don't think they have ever been that bothered.

I seem to remember a few years ago Italy passed a law that allowed an increase in the speed limit on certain stretches of autostrada to 150 km/h, when certain conditions were met - I think these conditions were that they had to be 3-lane stretches and average speed cameras had to be in place.

However, when I read up on this before driving to Italy in 2014 it seemed it was down to the operators themselves to decide if and where to introduce these 150 km/h zones. It clearly wasn't an offer too good to refuse, as none of the operators had taken it up. I believe that's still the case today.