Italian Road Trip ... again

[Owain]

Yay! I'm clear to be away from work for a whole month in December-January, so this means one thing: ITALIAN ROAD TRIP!!!!!

This will be my fifth time driving to Sardinia (Please don't let me down, 11-year-old Rover 75). I will stay in Genoa for a couple of nights on the way out, and Milan for a couple on the way back. Beyond that, what would you do?

Head to Strasbourg, follow the Rhine to Switzerland, and enter Italy at Como?

Head to Dijon, and take Mont Blanc?

Head to Lyon and take the Frejus?

Go one way, and take a different route back? Too many options.

A Swiss motorway tax sticker is much cheaper than tolls on either the Mont Blanc or Frejus, but I kind of want to drive the Italian A6 "Autostrada della Morte" (Motorway of Death).

Snow is another consideration. I have chains, but carry them for legal requirement and have no intention of driving on them! So, I'll stick to motorways this time.

Any suggestions appreciated.

[Big L]

I went Mont Blanc to Genoa, Gotthard (pass, not tunnel -there was a huge jam) coming back from Milan. About 8 years ago.

[chris486]

That should be fun - I am most envious. Shame on you for not having 100% faith in your car. Seriously, it'd never occur to me that my much older cars would struggle - although they all have ailments at the moment.

If Ethel had an exhaust pipe instead of a cylindrical colander, she'd breeze it to Sardinia and back but a trip of that distance would be too much for any of the other three, especially after what happened at Snake Lake View today.

[Vierwielen]

I went Mont Blanc to Genoa, Gotthard (pass, not tunnel -there was a huge jam) coming back from Milan. About 8 years ago.

During December/January?

[HPM]

To go skiing in Savoy, there is still a lot of people at this period, so I'll go discouraged to take the way by Lyon and the Frejus tunnel (Frejus tunnel is still expensive).

[Big L]

I went Mont Blanc to Genoa, Gotthard (pass, not tunnel -there was a huge jam) coming back from Milan. About 8 years ago.

During December/January?

Nearer September.

[Vierwielen]

I did the trip twice in 2001/2.

Early November 2001 - Out via Grenoble - Frejus Tunnel (I had business in Grenoble)

July 2002 - Return via St Gotthard Tunnel (2 hour wait at the tunnel, 2nd tunnel was still under construction)

August 2002 - Out via Mont Blanc Tunnel

September 2002 - Return via St Gotthard Pass (probably quicker than the tunnel, but the turn off is 10 km before the tunnel and is not signposted.

If you are on holiday, I suggest that you take one route out and a different route back, bearing in mind that the passes are more likely to be closed at the end of your holiday than the beginning of your holiday.

I checked out prices on http://www.viamichelin.co.uk for a trip from Calais to Lucca. comparing the Mont Blanc route and the St Gotthard route. The distances were about the same (1310 km vs 1352 km), so there was very little difference in petrol. However, Tolls and Swiss Road taxes for the St Gotthard route came to €99 while tolls for the Mont Blanc route came to €171, making the Swiss road tax a better option than the French autoroute tolls.

[brombeer]

The area around Pisa/Lucca is probably where the differences between the Gotthard and Mont Blanc routes turn marginal (distance-wise, thus leaving a cost preference to Gotthard). Go further west, to Genoa, and the pendulum swings rapidly towards the Mont Blanc route. Go further East or to Milan and you'd be a fool not to take the Gotthard - or a road geek taking detours to clinch a particular road

[Owain]

I went Mont Blanc to Genoa, Gotthard (pass, not tunnel -there was a huge jam) coming back from Milan. About 8 years ago.

During December/January?

I did Mont Blanc the first time I went. Horrified to discover that if you are making your return journey more than a week after the outbound trip, you have to buy two expensive singles (something like €43 each) instead of a return ticket (€70).

I did the Gotthard tunnel twice, once in winter and once in summer. I won't be doing the pass in the winter, but the tunnel should be better than in summer (no queues!).

If you are on holiday, I suggest that you take one route out and a different route back...

I think so too. In the past I always drove the same route there and the same route back, but for various reasons I don't know if I'll ever be able to do this drive again, so I'm keen to make the most of it (weather permitting).

the Swiss road tax a better option than the French autoroute tolls.

That's why I went the Swiss way the last two times. But I'm thinking I want to be over to the west, so I can drive that Italian A6. Maybe Mont Blanc and A6 outbound to Genoa, and return via Milano and Switzerland, with a run along the Rhine to Strasbourg.

[Owain]

To go skiing in Savoy, there is still a lot of people at this period, so I'll go discouraged to take the way by Lyon and the Frejus tunnel (Frejus tunnel is still expensive).

I went via Lyon and then over the beautiful Mont Cenis pass (outbound on a glorious moonlit night!) to Italy. The pass was great, but the drive all the way down round Lyon to get to it was quite a drag .... especially as I'd got off the ferry in Calais at 6am and was trying to get to Moncenisio in Switzerland before my hotel closed! 900 miles in one day, if you include the English bit from Frome to Calais.

Go further East or to Milan and you'd be a fool not to take the Gotthard - or a road geek taking detours to clinch a particular road

Gotthard for the return trip, I think.

[Owain]

Shame on you for not having 100% faith in your car.

Where, oh where, oh where is that fantastic photo from? Looks like Michael Caine.

My car is fine, but I just have a feeling that as this is its last trip to Italy, having already done it four times without missing a beat, this will be the time something goes wrong!

[chris486]

..Looks like Michael Caine.

It's good but it's not right. Someone will be along in no time with the correct answer.

[Owain]

So where did you get it? Just a google search?

When you come down off the Mont Cenis pass there is a sign a bit like that at the old border post, which is still there. The difference is that it just indicates a curve to the left and says 'ITALIE'.

There's something I really love about crossing the border from France to Italy, no matter where I do it. I don't know why, but it always feels kind of '60s. Probably a subconscious association in my mind with The Italian Job (which is obviously my favourite film).

[chris486]

So where did you get it? Just a google search?

When you come down off the Mont Cenis pass there is a sign a bit like that at the old border post, which is still there. The difference is that it just indicates a curve to the left and says 'ITALIE'.

There's something I really love about crossing the border from France to Italy, no matter where I do it. I don't know why, but it always feels kind of '60s. Probably a subconscious association in my mind with The Italian Job (which is obviously my favourite film).

No it is a screen grab of a famous movie. This is the end of the old N7 - somehow I don't think it looks like this any more.

[Owain]

No it is a screen grab of a famous movie. This is the end of the old N7 - somehow I don't think it looks like this any more.

You just don't want to tell me which film it is in the hope that other people will jump in with the answer. Come on somebody, tell me!

I've driven across the border on what I thought was the old N7 (the road right on the very coast at Menton), but I guess that must be something else. That was where we ate our most expensive meal ever at the very first restaurant in Italy, a stone's throw from the old border post (now filled with camper vans), on a balcony over the sea with an amazing view back at France. That was summer though!

[chris486]

No it is a screen grab of a famous movie. This is the end of the old N7 - somehow I don't think it looks like this any more.

You just don't want to tell me which film it is in the hope that other people will jump in with the answer. Come on somebody, tell me!

I've driven across the border on what I thought was the old N7 (the road right on the very coast at Menton), but I guess that must be something else. That was where we ate our most expensive meal ever at the very first restaurant in Italy, a stone's throw from the old border post (now filled with camper vans), on a balcony over the sea with an amazing view back at France. That was summer though!

I don't want to tell you but it is one of my favourite films. I watched it the other night and got all dewy eyed about driving my Blue McFoo on this road.

The driver and star of the film is a respected actor who is not as prolific as Michael Caine.

Unlike many of my favourite films, there are no Rover P6s in it.

[SarahJ]

The day of the Jackal.

What ever way your gonna go, in Dec/Jan you will need winter tyres. Some rules are different, but for a few countries, not law, but if you get stuck, or cause a jam, and you ain't got em, big fine.

[chris486]

The day of the Jackal.

+1

[Owain]

The day of the Jackal.

What ever way your gonna go, in Dec/Jan you will need winter tyres. Some rules are different, but for a few countries, not law, but if you get stuck, or cause a jam, and you ain't got em, big fine.

Ah ha! Edward Fox then. I've seen that film, but about 20 years ago. Looks like a must-watch-again movie now.

I have snow chains, but to be honest I'd rather just stay put at the first sign of Alpine snow and re-book the rest of the trip. When I did this journey before in winter the roads were bone dry all the way through .... it's so impressive how they keep them clear.

[Owain]

I don't want to tell you but it is one of my favourite films. I watched it the other night and got all dewy eyed about driving my Blue McFoo on this road....
Unlike many of my favourite films, there are no Rover P6s in it.

The Blue McFoo would attract a lot of attention in Italy.

While driving the 75 I've had:

- the owner of what is probably the only 75 in France(!) toot at me and give the thumbs up.

- a group of old men sitting by the roadside slap their thighs and say "ma guarda!" (ah, look at that!) as I drove by

- a really cool looking guy in an Alfa Brera wind down his window and stick his head to get a good view of the car while we were stuck in traffic

- a family at the ferry port have a whole argument about whether it was a Jaguar or a Rover

- a group of Italian schoolboys shout "che bella macchina!" (what a beautiful car) .... although that happened in Lancaster!

That stuff don't usually happen in Britain. Rovers still have a good reputation in Italy, which is one of the reasons I've loved driving mine around that country so much. Your P6s would go down a treat.