Rotterdam to Berlin

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fras
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Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by fras »

We're going to Berlin for about 10 days in late July and decided to use the Hull-Rotterdam ferry this time.Previous holidays have been on the Rheintal south of Koblenz, a fairly easy trek from Dunkerque. There is autobahn all the way according to my map of Europe. If anybody has done this trip, any hints and tips would be gratefully received. Car is a 2007 Jaguar XJ6 so quick enough to do the journey in one day, I think. If I took my MG Midget, I'd obviously allow longer !
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Junglecarz »

It would be quicker using a train.
There will be little traffic but there will also be quite a lot of police so stay alert at all times and there are quite a lot of drivers who like to tailgate and pull in front of you without indicating
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Owain »

fras wrote:Car is a 2007 Jaguar XJ6 so quick enough to do the journey in one day, I think.
I should hope so ... next Sunday I'm intending to drive a Rover 75 from the Hook of Holland to Liechtenstein in one day.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

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This probably isn't a practical suggestion unless you have a bit of time to play with, but what about doing the German bit of the journey on the non-Autobahn Bundesstrasse (formerly Reichsstrasse) 1, which goes all the way to Berlin?

That's roughly the equivalent of Route 66 in the US or the A1 in the U.K. or RN7 in France.

Far more interesting than bashing down the motorway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesstraße_1#/search
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Owain »

roadtester wrote:That's roughly the equivalent of Route 66 in the US or the A1 in the U.K. or RN7 in France.
Or the ss1 in Italy.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by WHBM »

Went this way twice in 1992-3, once in my old XR3i, the next year in its replacement BMW.

From the overnight Harwich-Hook car ferry, leaving Rotterdam at about 0730, was at Berlin by 1500. The first trip I was heading for Lubin in southern Poland, got there early evening. Autobahn all the way. Very straightforward drive. On my return from the first trip, after a week of 1990 Polish food was saved by the Autobahn Rastatte where everything was wonderful !

I'm sure a lot has changed since then. The Autobahn immediately across the German border was new and deserted, and the first place I ever did 120mph on a downhill.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Comstock »

Owain wrote:
fras wrote:Car is a 2007 Jaguar XJ6 so quick enough to do the journey in one day, I think.
I should hope so ... next Sunday I'm intending to drive a Rover 75 from the Hook of Holland to Liechtenstein in one day.
What's of interest in Liechtenstein if you don't mind me asking?
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Owain »

Comstock wrote:

I should hope so ... next Sunday I'm intending to drive a Rover 75 from the Hook of Holland to Liechtenstein in one day.
What's of interest in Liechtenstein if you don't mind me asking?
It's just an overnight stop to break the journey between the ferry and Trieste.

Plus it's a European country that I haven't been to yet!
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by RichardA626 »

Comstock wrote:
Owain wrote:
fras wrote:Car is a 2007 Jaguar XJ6 so quick enough to do the journey in one day, I think.
I should hope so ... next Sunday I'm intending to drive a Rover 75 from the Hook of Holland to Liechtenstein in one day.
What's of interest in Liechtenstein if you don't mind me asking?
Their national anthem has the same tune as God Save The Queen, which was confusing when they played England a few years ago.

Before then they played Scotland, who got in trouble for booing it!
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

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Junglecarz wrote:It would be quicker using a train.
There will be little traffic but there will also be quite a lot of police so stay alert at all times and there are quite a lot of drivers who like to tailgate and pull in front of you without indicating
I'd disagree on pretty much all of those points, have you ever driven this route or done it by train?

It's not quicker by train as there is no direct intercity service. You need to go to Amsterdam first and change for the Amsterdam to Berlin service, which takes 6h20 https://www.nsinternational.nl/en/train ... ity-berlin and Rotterdam to Amsterdam takes about 50 minutes, meaning you're looking - with transfers at an 8 hour journey by train.

With regard to traffic, the B61 through Bad Oeynhausen can be quite congested, as can some of the Dutch motorways. The E30 travels north of the Dortmund area though so you miss the most congested bit of that, although rush hour at Hannover can be congested.
By road you're looking at 6-7 hours; the A2 in Germany has been widened to three lanes and is derestricted.

Failing to indicate I've never really found a particular issue in Germany - and driving styles are different on a derestricted motorway - as is the law; there certainly isn't much quarter given to hogging of the fast lane when you can move in, but equally other drivers do slow if you need to pull out to overtake an HGV or similar.
I've also not found police presence to be any higher than in the UK - although there is enforcement on sections with speed limits applied, particularly where limits apply at certain times, e.g. the D2M section of the A1 up to Hamburg.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

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Yes, I agree with c2r. German motorway driving is much more "by the book" than in the U.K. where aspects such as signalling and lane discipline are concerned.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by fras »

roadtester wrote:This probably isn't a practical suggestion unless you have a bit of time to play with, but what about doing the German bit of the journey on the non-Autobahn Bundesstrasse (formerly Reichsstrasse) 1, which goes all the way to Berlin?

That's roughly the equivalent of Route 66 in the US or the A1 in the U.K. or RN7 in France.

Far more interesting than bashing down the motorway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesstraße_1#/search
An interesting suggestion,but not this time, I think. Time is limited in each direction, as we must make sure we take over the 'ferienwohning' at around 17.00 and must be in time for the ferry check-in when we come back.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Octaviadriver »

Remember you need an emissions sticker to enter certain cities in Germany. I've not needed one yet as we've either visited places that don't require them or we've stayed just outside the zone where there's, for example, a tram nearby to take us straight into the city.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by brombeer »

fras wrote:
roadtester wrote:This probably isn't a practical suggestion unless you have a bit of time to play with, but what about doing the German bit of the journey on the non-Autobahn Bundesstrasse (formerly Reichsstrasse) 1, which goes all the way to Berlin? That's roughly the equivalent of Route 66 in the US or the A1 in the U.K. or RN7 in France.

Far more interesting than bashing down the motorway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesstraße_1#/search
An interesting suggestion,but not this time, I think. Time is limited in each direction, as we must make sure we take over the 'ferienwohning' at around 17.00 and must be in time for the ferry check-in when we come back.
For what it's worth, if you arrive from the Netherlands at Bad Oeynhausen, you're relatively far away from the B1. Only once you're east of Hannover will you get close-ish. And first time you cross the B1 would be at Helmstedt, close to the former Inner-German border. B1 is not a route where you'll encounter any form of nostalgia for the long-distance drives of yesteryear. Most of the motorway A2 already opened before World War 2. The B1 had already lost its importance when, around roads like RN7 or Route 66, the type of items started to appear that fueled current nostalgia.

Looking at the trip in general: the German A2 is not fun. Busy and lots of road works that can easily create congestion, particularly if an accident occurs. But you'll be travelling during the holiday season, which hopefully means that traffic levels are a bit lower (should also help you in negotiating the Dutch rush hour when leaving Hoek van Holland). It means that you might get to see that Germans don't operate exactly by the rule book when given the chance on an unrestricted motorway. They're pretty bad middle lane hoggers, mostly it's just too busy for you to note. The fast lane is, of course, a different story ...
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

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brombeer wrote:
fras wrote:
roadtester wrote:This probably isn't a practical suggestion unless you have a bit of time to play with, but what about doing the German bit of the journey on the non-Autobahn Bundesstrasse (formerly Reichsstrasse) 1, which goes all the way to Berlin? That's roughly the equivalent of Route 66 in the US or the A1 in the U.K. or RN7 in France.

Far more interesting than bashing down the motorway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesstraße_1#/search
An interesting suggestion,but not this time, I think. Time is limited in each direction, as we must make sure we take over the 'ferienwohning' at around 17.00 and must be in time for the ferry check-in when we come back.
For what it's worth, if you arrive from the Netherlands at Bad Oeynhausen, you're relatively far away from the B1. Only once you're east of Hannover will you get close-ish. And first time you cross the B1 would be at Helmstedt, close to the former Inner-German border. B1 is not a route where you'll encounter any form of nostalgia for the long-distance drives of yesteryear. Most of the motorway A2 already opened before World War 2. The B1 had already lost its importance when, around roads like RN7 or Route 66, the type of items started to appear that fueled current nostalgia.

Looking at the trip in general: the German A2 is not fun. Busy and lots of road works that can easily create congestion, particularly if an accident occurs. But you'll be travelling during the holiday season, which hopefully means that traffic levels are a bit lower (should also help you in negotiating the Dutch rush hour when leaving Hoek van Holland). It means that you might get to see that Germans don't operate exactly by the rule book when given the chance on an unrestricted motorway. They're pretty bad middle lane hoggers, mostly it's just too busy for you to note. The fast lane is, of course, a different story ...
Well where you might join the B1 depends which way you go.

Personally, if the A2, "is not fun" then that to me increases the attractions of the B1.

Incidentally Bad Oeynhausen itself might be worth a quick look if there is time. Not only is it a spa town but it has a certain historical importance for Brits as it was the HQ of the British military government in the post-war occupation period.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by fras »

I'll report back when we return after 5th August.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Andy P »

Octaviadriver wrote:Remember you need an emissions sticker to enter certain cities in Germany.
I personally wouldn't bother with an emissions sticker if I were driving a foreign car temporarily in Germany.* I live in such a zone, and from observation very few foreign-registered cars have one.
I suspect that there is little or no enforcement, because almost all German cars have the green sticker automatically. In the unlikely event of being stopped for this, I would expect a foreigner to get away with feigned ignorance.
*This isn't legal advice, and I won't accept any responsibility for anyone following it!
roadtester wrote:Personally, if the A2, "is not fun" then that to me increases the attractions of the B1.
I'm not familiar with the B1, but most B-roads (Bundesstraße = Federal road) are S2 outside urban areas, and pass through many towns and villages, with lots of traffic lights. Although they tend to have good alignments, progress is generally slow.
brombeer wrote:Germans don't operate exactly by the rule book when given the chance on an unrestricted motorway. They're pretty bad middle lane hoggers, mostly it's just too busy for you to note. The fast lane is, of course, a different story ...
I agree. German lane discipline is excellent on a D2M, but not always so good on a D3M, and can be terrible on a D4M. I find driving on a busy D4M in Germany stressful, because of the extreme disparities in speeds, combined with poor lane discipline.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by Owain »

c2R wrote:
Junglecarz wrote:It would be quicker using a train.
There will be little traffic but there will also be quite a lot of police so stay alert at all times and there are quite a lot of drivers who like to tailgate and pull in front of you without indicating
I'd disagree on pretty much all of those points, have you ever driven this route or done it by train?
roadtester wrote:Yes, I agree with c2r. German motorway driving is much more "by the book" than in the U.K. where aspects such as signalling and lane discipline are concerned.
I have only limited experience of the Autobahn (just the A5 along the Rhein a couple of times), but it was the most civilised driving experience I've ever had. 90mph all the way - perfectly legally - and in the company of other drivers who treated everybody else with respect.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

Post by roadtester »

There's also the fact that in Germany you can be nicked for tailgating, flashing/indicating people to get out of the way, intimidatory gesticulating and all that.
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Re: Rotterdam to Berlin

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Andy P wrote: I'm not familiar with the B1, but most B-roads (Bundesstraße = Federal road) are S2 outside urban areas, and pass through many towns and villages, with lots of traffic lights. Although they tend to have good alignments, progress is generally slow.
The B1 is a very interesting drive with lots of variety - a bit like the A6 in some ways. The old route from the Dutch border to Dortmund is intermittently replaced by new housing development and motorway upgrades, meaning some of it is quite difficult to follow. The Ruhrschnellweg section mixes motorway (A40) upgrades with sections of expressway and urban traffic signals (giant signalised concrete junctions, anyone!). There's also trams and guided busways in the mix and lots of tunneling. After Dortmund it escapes into a rural area (lots of farming but also prime commuter territory), and bypasses many of the villages en-route. It then reaches Paderborn where it bypasses the city on a high quality route to the north. Between there and Berlin is prettier, with more countryside, forests, and some hills...
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