Deutsche Alleenstrasse

[fras]

We found this road on the map when driving around the state of Brandenburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Avenue_Road

This is their website, english text available.

http://www.alleenstrasse.com/index_en.php

However it became clear there were far more of these roads than just the one marked on the map. They are very similar to the old French roads that were also along avenues of trees. I believe a French king, or maybe it was Napoleon, wanted the trees to give shelter to marching troups. However despite these dating back to well before mass motoring, the Germans are now busily engaged slapping on speed restrictions, with 80 kph the most common, but we came upon many at 70 kph accompanied by a sign showing a picture of car crashing into a tree. Needless to say the Germans tend to ignore the lower limit entirely and most the higher one ! Of course, I don't know the statistics, but suspect the 'Elf 'n Safety madness has now spread to Germany !

[Owain]

Don't quote me on this, but I could well believe that the tree-lined routes were a Napoleonic thing. They exist in parts of Italy that were subjected to Napoleonic rule.

It might be worth asking somebody who knows stuff about trees to estimate their age. If s/he says "about 200 years", then my money is on Napoleon. As with RN 7 and driving a droit.

[Bryn666]

I've certainly heard the phrase 'route Napoleonic' or similar said to describe tree lined straight roads.

Roads like the N149 were littered with signs marking out where fatalities had occurred. Straight, tree line roads mislead drivers and they pull overtakes and get it badly wrong.

[fras]

I never saw any of this sort of road in the west of Germany where we used to go.Our Berlin and Potsdam trip was our first to the east side. I suppose the communists just never did any road improvements, so the trees never got chopped down. On some stretches I saw new trees planted much further away from the carriageway with a ditch in between, and no posted speed restriction, i.e the road was 100 kph.

I have to say these roads are lovely to drive along, with almost no traffic at all.

Incidentally, I have never seen so much roadworks activity on the autobahns; there are lengthy stretches of the A2 where one carriageway has been completely ripped-up. There is also major activity with some junctions in and around Berlin.

[WHBM]

Incidentally, I have never seen so much roadworks activity on the autobahns; there are lengthy stretches of the A2 where one carriageway has been completely ripped-up. There is also major activity with some junctions in and around Berlin.

But it was just like that when I drove to Berlin several times in the early 1990s, shortly after reunification. Are they still at it ?

[fras]

Incidentally, I have never seen so much roadworks activity on the autobahns; there are lengthy stretches of the A2 where one carriageway has been completely ripped-up. There is also major activity with some junctions in and around Berlin.

But it was just like that when I drove to Berlin several times in the early 1990s, shortly after reunification. Are they still at it ?

Yes, it would seem so !

[MJG]

I never saw any of this sort of road in the west of Germany where we used to go.Our Berlin and Potsdam trip was our first to the east side. I suppose the communists just never did any road improvements, so the trees never got chopped down.

This is the most common explanation. Especially, the north areas of the ex-DDR are full of such roads. They work as spoilers to protect large fields from extreme winds, and shades protecting the travellers from the sunshine.

Incidentally, I have never seen so much roadworks activity on the autobahns; there are lengthy stretches of the A2 where one carriageway has been completely ripped-up. There is also major activity with some junctions in and around Berlin.

The German way to repave the autobahns is thorough but very ineffective and time-consuming. Typically, either of the carriageways are removed and rebuilt. Such projects may take 2-3 years. Anyway, the German procedures related to roads are extermely bureaucratic and time consuming.

[fras]

I never saw any of this sort of road in the west of Germany where we used to go.Our Berlin and Potsdam trip was our first to the east side. I suppose the communists just never did any road improvements, so the trees never got chopped down.

This is the most common explanation. Especially, the north areas of the ex-DDR are full of such roads. They work as spoilers to protect large fields from extreme winds, and shades protecting the travellers from the sunshine.

Incidentally, I have never seen so much roadworks activity on the autobahns; there are lengthy stretches of the A2 where one carriageway has been completely ripped-up. There is also major activity with some junctions in and around Berlin.

The German way to repave the autobahns is thorough but very ineffective and time-consuming. Typically, either of the carriageways are removed and rebuilt. Such projects may take 2-3 years. Anyway, the German procedures related to roads are extermely bureaucratic and time consuming.

Well this may be so, but the condition of their autobahns is far better than ours. Quieter and smoother, the only criticism I have is the warning distances for exits, most being 1000 metres and some even shorter. 1500 metres, similar to our mile would be far better, with a second sign at 750 metres. I don't agree that their repairs are ineffective, they are no doubt costly, but once completed will last for many years unlike our spatchcocks. Of course many autobahns will be pre-war, so the substructure will not be suitable for current weights and speeds of HGVs.

[MJG]

The German way to repave the autobahns is thorough but very ineffective and time-consuming. Typically, either of the carriageways are removed and rebuilt. Such projects may take 2-3 years. Anyway, the German procedures related to roads are extermely bureaucratic and time consuming.

Well this may be so, but the condition of their autobahns is far better than ours. Quieter and smoother, the only criticism I have is the warning distances for exits, most being 1000 metres and some even shorter. 1500 metres, similar to our mile would be far better, with a second sign at 750 metres. I don't agree that their repairs are ineffective, they are no doubt costly, but once completed will last for many years unlike our spatchcocks. Of course many autobahns will be pre-war, so the substructure will not be suitable for current weights and speeds of HGVs.

Germans themselves admit that their way to build and repair roads is not very effective. The bureaucracy is overwhelming, and that is why it always takes an amazingly long time to start the actual construction work. For example: The application sent to the German authorities to build the Fermarnbelt tunnel consists of 11,000 pages. A set of 1500 pages was enough for the Danish authorities. Another example: The Rhine bridge on A1 at Leverkusen was found cracked in 2012, and traffic restrictions were introduced. If everything goes smoothly, the new bridge on this main transport corridor will be complete in 2023, 11 years later. The rumors tell that the German authorities have made a visit to Rijkswaterstaat in the Netherlands in order to learn how the duration of the projects could be squeezed.

[fras]

The German way to repave the autobahns is thorough but very ineffective and time-consuming. Typically, either of the carriageways are removed and rebuilt. Such projects may take 2-3 years. Anyway, the German procedures related to roads are extermely bureaucratic and time consuming.

Well this may be so, but the condition of their autobahns is far better than ours. Quieter and smoother, the only criticism I have is the warning distances for exits, most being 1000 metres and some even shorter. 1500 metres, similar to our mile would be far better, with a second sign at 750 metres. I don't agree that their repairs are ineffective, they are no doubt costly, but once completed will last for many years unlike our spatchcocks. Of course many autobahns will be pre-war, so the substructure will not be suitable for current weights and speeds of HGVs.

Germans themselves admit that their way to build and repair roads is not very effective. The bureaucracy is overwhelming, and that is why it always takes an amazingly long time to start the actual construction work. For example: The application sent to the German authorities to build the Fermarnbelt tunnel consists of 11,000 pages. A set of 1500 pages was enough for the Danish authorities. Another example: The Rhine bridge on A1 at Leverkusen was found cracked in 2012, and traffic restrictions were introduced. If everything goes smoothly, the new bridge on this main transport corridor will be complete in 2023, 11 years later. The rumors tell that the German authorities have made a visit to Rijkswaterstaat in the Netherlands in order to learn how the duration of the projects could be squeezed.

OK, but we have exceedingly lengthy timescales too. Like the new A556 link between M6 and M56 which is about 35 years late. Dutch motorways seemed very good too, the equal of the German ones. I find Belgium not as good, about equal to us, I reckon. Some years ago, (2007), I fond the Italian ones were very good, and their tunnelling activities are incredible. Only problem I found was the head-bangers driving along them !!

My memory of this year in Germany will be the Alleenstrassen. Quiet roads and lovely too. Villages all neat and tidy as always. We did come across some cobbled (pave) sections but only in villages, I suppose because it slows the traffic down.

[firefly]

The German way to repave the autobahns is thorough but very ineffective and time-consuming. Typically, either of the carriageways are removed and rebuilt. Such projects may take 2-3 years.

Could you get yourself informed before you write ******* like this again. It takes rather 3 month to repave motorway carriageways and there is little bureaucracy involved in the process.