German/international map site

[roadtester]

I was trying to find a map of the German prewar autobahn network and I came across this site, landkartenarchiv.de

http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/index.php

A search of SABRE does come up with one previous mention in passing back in 2006 by wibble, but nobody else picked up on it, so I think it might be worth another plug.

It's quite a mixed bag but interesting nevertheless. It claims to have over 21,000 maps and related documents.

[Andy P]

That looks very interesting, and will take up too much of my time!

Thanks for posting.

[roadtester]

That looks very interesting, and will take up too much of my time!

Yes, as I am discovering!

[wibble]

A search of SABRE does come up with one previous mention in passing back in 2006 by wibble, but nobody else picked up on it, so I think it might be worth another plug.

That user sounds familiar . That site has improved a lot over the years, I have managed to trace the development around where I live over time now, it is amazing how Munich has developed over even the last 60 years or so.

I still prefer the saber maps interface though!

[roadtester]

A search of SABRE does come up with one previous mention in passing back in 2006 by wibble, but nobody else picked up on it, so I think it might be worth another plug.

That user sounds familiar . That site has improved a lot over the years, I have managed to trace the development around where I live over time now, it is amazing how Munich has developed over even the last 60 years or so.

I still prefer the saber maps interface though!

One thing that always fascinates me about Munich is the fact that they have never got around to giving it a full motorway ring - a surprising omission considering how much gets built in Germany.

In fact, am I right in thinking that Munich was only bypassed by the A99 on the eastern side in the seventies or later? I vaguely remember, when I was small travelling that way on family holidays, the journey south was interrupted by the need to negotiate the Munich traffic.

[Andy P]

One thing that always fascinates me about Munich is the fact that they have never got around to giving it a full motorway ring - a surprising omission considering how much gets built in Germany.In fact, am I right in thinking that Munich was only bypassed by the A99 on the eastern side in the seventies or later? I vaguely remember, when I was small travelling that way on family holidays, the journey south was interrupted by the need to negotiate the Munich traffic.

I think the eastern part of the A99 was indeed built in the 1970s, with the north-western part even later, in the 1990s.

The gap in the ring is perhaps not too surprising - I think the main through traffic flows are from the A8 in the north-west and the A9 in the north to the A8 in the south, and the existing A99 caters for these. The two routes to the south-west (A95 and A96) are not so important. In addition, I think the missing part of the ring would require long tunnels.

[wibble]

One thing that always fascinates me about Munich is the fact that they have never got around to giving it a full motorway ring - a surprising omission considering how much gets built in Germany.

I think the eastern part of the A99 was indeed built in the 1970s, with the north-western part even later, in the 1990s.
The two routes to the south-west (A95 and A96) are not so important. In addition, I think the missing part of the ring would require long tunnels.

The southern route of the A99 has always been planne,d even from the 1930s - you can see the whole outer ring as then planned in darker green in the Zoning plan from 1938 (it is actually quite scary to see "Hauptstadt Der Bewegung" (Capital City if the [Nazi] Movement) in large letters at the top!). Must of the planned route was actually used, especially on the east and west, but the north west & northern sections were built further out.

A feasibility study was performed in around 2010 (full details here, but in summary, the tunnels to get under existing communities on eiher side of the River Isar valley, plus the required bridge over the river between two tunnels (or worst still a continuous tunnel going from above the valley, to under the river and backup again) would be far too costly. The text is obviously in German, but the diagrams here don't need much in the way of text for explanation.

Since the free flowing of the south western section of the middle ring road was completed (see here & here) , this has significantly increased the traffic on the section between the A96 and the exit to the A995, there were renewed calls for the southern part of the ring to be completed, but even now I don't think this will happen.

For interest, other zoning plans for Munich are here.

[jackal]

One thing that always fascinates me about Munich is the fact that they have never got around to giving it a full motorway ring - a surprising omission considering how much gets built in Germany.

I think the eastern part of the A99 was indeed built in the 1970s, with the north-western part even later, in the 1990s.
The two routes to the south-west (A95 and A96) are not so important. In addition, I think the missing part of the ring would require long tunnels.

A feasibility study was performed in around 2010 (full details here, but in summary, the tunnels to get under existing communities on eiher side of the River Isar valley, plus the required bridge over the river between two tunnels (or worst still a continuous tunnel going from above the valley, to under the river and backup again) would be far too costly. The text is obviously in German, but the diagrams here don't need much in the way of text for explanation.

Interesting that there was an option (C8) that apparently didn't require a tunnel.

[Berk]

I’d also be interested to know how the planned network of the time changed after the war, with respect to new boundaries.

After all, if the easternmost city in Prussia had suddenly moved into Russia (Königsberg, now Kaliningrad), and it crossed Polish territory in order to get there...

Was there a motorway link planned between eastern Germany and (the modern-day) Czech(ia)??

[bothar]

After all, if the easternmost city in Prussia had suddenly moved into Russia (Königsberg, now Kaliningrad), and it crossed Polish territory in order to get there...

The East Prussian maps are interesting, especially where Kaliningrad borders Poland or Lithuania. Quite important roads and even towns have disappeared.

Was there a motorway link planned between eastern Germany and (the modern-day) Czech(ia)??

The Autobahn A88 Breslau - Wien was to cross Czechia, and some was built. Some is derelict and some is part of the modern D43 running north of Brno.