AH1 - Is driving the whole thing possible?

[Osthagen]

I should first establish that I have NO PLANS to actually driving the road end to end at this present time.
However, I recently became interested in the AH1 highway, which connects Tokyo, Japan to Istanbul not Constantinople, Turkey, via Korea, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, India (twice!), Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. I was wondering exactly how possible a road trip from end-to-end would actually be. With my limited experience with roads in India, I can testify that their national highways are generally sub-par at best and some have lengthy unpaved sections and in rural areas are so poorly serviced they could rival the A9…! Also, I don’t believe that North and South Korea have a cross-border road of any kind. I’m not sure but I imagine the state of roads in Southeast Asia can be very poor.

[Fenlander]

I should first establish that I have NO PLANS to actually driving the road end to end at this present time.
However...

Paging Owain & Roadtester, customer waiting in the road trips aisle.

[scynthius726]

Having done all that, you might as well add on the E80 to Lisbon!

[Octaviadriver]

If you wanted to drive from Tokyo to Istanbul, I would imagine a more feasible route would be to cross from Japan to Russia at Vladivostok and go through Russia then down through either Georgia to Turkey or through the Balkans. The roads through Russia would be dire in places and impossible in winter, but I imagine it would be possible.

As Osthagen has already mentioned, to follow the AH1 would be impossible as I can't see anyone being allowed to drive through North Korea and some of the other countries can be very dangerous.

[Osthagen]

Having done all that, you might as well add on the E80 to Lisbon!

On a serious note, were I actually driving this road end to end, I think I’d start with the E80, and then do the AH1 to Japan.

[brombeer]

If you wanted to drive from Tokyo to Istanbul, I would imagine a more feasible route would be to cross from Japan to Russia at Vladivostok and go through Russia then down through either Georgia to Turkey or through the Balkans. The roads through Russia would be dire in places and impossible in winter, but I imagine it would be possible.

I'd use as much of the Chinese expressway network as possible. From Western Europe, you'd travel to Moscow and into Kazakhstan and then into China near Karamay. Glorious G3015/G30/G70/G12 to Beijing, ferry crossing to South Korea and eventually a ferry to Japan. A more Southerly way of getting there could be from Istanbul into Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan to Horgos/Khorgas, and then pretty much the same route through China. An advantage of the Southerly route would be that you would be on motorways or dual carriageways for most of Istanbul to the Iran-Turkmen border, whilst you'd find yourself on single carriageways much more when driving through Russia and Kazakhstan (and of course even more so if you elected a route via Vladivostok).

But needless to say that either route will require considerable paperwork. China is notoriously difficult, but swapping Russia/Kazakhstan on the Northerly route for Iran and a few extra Stans on the Southerly is unlikely to be anywhere near helpful either.

Back to driving AH1: crossing from South to North Korea is just impossible. The rest will just require lots of paperwork and maybe even a fix around policies that a country will not allow any foreign car for the time being (Vietnam used to have such a policy, but I think that it was lifted). But the road is drivable and I'd expect it to be fully sealed too. As regards services: in many places AH1 is one of the most important roads nationally (if not the most important roads), so state of the road and services will be as good as you can get it within the territory. Though needless to say that in the remote areas of Northeast India, Myanmar and Afghanistan there will be lots to wish for. Though you'd definitely get to the other side of the country.

[Osthagen]

Back to driving AH1: crossing from South to North Korea is just impossible. The rest will just require lots of paperwork and maybe even a fix around policies that a country will not allow any foreign car for the time being (Vietnam used to have such a policy, but I think that it was lifted). But the road is drivable and I'd expect it to be fully sealed too. As regards services: in many places AH1 is one of the most important roads nationally (if not the most important roads), so state of the road and services will be as good as you can get it within the territory. Though needless to say that in the remote areas of Northeast India, Myanmar and Afghanistan there will be lots to wish for. Though you'd definitely get to the other side of the country.

Is it even possible to cross by road from the DPRK to China? There are three bridges across the Tumen river, AFAIK they are all rail bridges. I should note that a road link between Korea and Russia has been agreed, but further planning has yet to commence.

Then you have the India-Pakistan border. I don’t believe that it I currently possible to cross this border by road.

[brombeer]

DPRK-China are rail crossings only indeed. India-Pakistan obviously varies together with the exact tensions between the countries, but stories from overlanders found using Mr Google suggest that foreigners with foreign licence plates will typically be allowed to cross.

[Osthagen]

DPRK-China are rail crossings only indeed. India-Pakistan obviously varies together with the exact tensions between the countries, but stories from overlanders found using Mr Google suggest that foreigners with foreign licence plates will typically be allowed to cross.

Oh right. I asked about the India-Pakistan border because Google won’t give any directions from Europe to India, whereas you will get directions from Europe to Pakistan. Obviously, this implies that there’s something stopping me from crossing the border from Pakistan into India…

[roadtester]

I should first establish that I have NO PLANS to actually driving the road end to end at this present time.
However...

Paging Owain & Roadtester, customer waiting in the road trips aisle.

Ha ha! When I was younger, I would have been very interested in having a go, but cardiological decrepitude limits me a bit now.

Back in about 2005, I vaguely remember there was a stir when the Russians claimed (I think somewhat dubiously) to have completed their East-West road (Trans-Siberian Highway?). I mentioned this to one of the Land Rover PR managers when I was chatting to him on a launch event, with a view to gently planting the idea that they might want to organise some sort of expedition for journalists (they love doing that sort of thing normally).

His face dropped immediately. He'd already been besieged by motoring and travel journalists as well as innumerable chancers coming to him to try to cadge a Disco or similar to do the trip and write about it. I think it was considered a bit too ambitious logistically even for them with all of the resources at their disposal.

How about doing the A13 end to end instead?

[FosseWay]

I read a book written by someone who drove a VW camper from Europe to Vladivostok, some time at the start of the century. There was also a Norwegian TV series a couple of years ago about a couple of guys who drove a surplus fire engine from Norway via central Europe and then across Russia and the southern ex-Soviet republics to Ulan Bator, where they donated it to the Mongolian fire service.

Following the more southerly route that AH1 takes, WHBM's parents drove from Sri Lanka to the UK in an Allegro sometime in the 1970s.

[brombeer]

I've often heard that overlanding to India was much easier until the 1970s, when Iran was still very much open to the West, Afghanistan was at peace and the India-Pakistan tensions did not quite keep that border closed. Now the border crossings are much more complex and Iran to Pakistan leaves you with a choice between a Southerly route through Baluchistan and a Northerly route through Afghanistan - both areas with negative travel advices.

As regards Google Maps: inability to calculate does not necessarily mean impossible to pass. The Chinese border seems similarly impassable but it isn't. Significant paperwork aside. A Dutch travel tv show actually drove from Amsterdam to Beijing a few years back, via Mongolia (and an unusual detour via the Stans "just because they could"). It made interesting viewing, also of the roads on which they drove.

[Osthagen]

I've often heard that overlanding to India was much easier until the 1970s, when Iran was still very much open to the West, Afghanistan was at peace and the India-Pakistan tensions did not quite keep that border closed. Now the border crossings are much more complex and Iran to Pakistan leaves you with a choice between a Southerly route through Baluchistan and a Northerly route through Afghanistan - both areas with negative travel advices.

As regards Google Maps: inability to calculate does not necessarily mean impossible to pass. The Chinese border seems similarly impassable but it isn't. Significant paperwork aside. A Dutch travel tv show actually drove from Amsterdam to Beijing a few years back, via Mongolia (and an unusual detour via the Stans "just because they could"). It made interesting viewing, also of the roads on which they drove.

I heard somewhere that vehicles which drive on the right are prohibited from crossing the Chinese border…

[KeithW]

I read a book written by someone who drove a VW camper from Europe to Vladivostok, some time at the start of the century. There was also a Norwegian TV series a couple of years ago about a couple of guys who drove a surplus fire engine from Norway via central Europe and then across Russia and the southern ex-Soviet republics to Ulan Bator, where they donated it to the Mongolian fire service.

Following the more southerly route that AH1 takes, WHBM's parents drove from Sri Lanka to the UK in an Allegro sometime in the 1970s.

I know of a German who drove his Landrover Defender to Vladivostok. ISTR he had a few dicy moments when he hit sections where bridges had been washed and in one case had to bump his way across the sleepers of the nearby railway bridge. In the case of that route of course you are mainly in Russia so border crossings are less of an issue. You can however run into police control points but foreigners usually get waved through.

He was actually travelling to Japan and caught a ferry that goes via South Korea as it was deemed simply impossible to go via the DPRK. The Chinese built an impressive new cable stayed bridge across the Yalu at Dandong but on the North Korean side the D2 highway ends in a field 100 m past the border post while trucks and the odd tourist bus queue for miles to use the old bridge

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.03233 ... 240!8i5120

Oddly the city of Dandong now has it own large Tesco store which is apparently a Mecca for the privileged few officials of the DPRK who are allowed to travel there and the truck drivers who use the old bridge. There have been reports that since 2015 that the previously rather porous border between the DPRK and China has had new fencing and security posts built on the Chinese side as the PRC is somewhat concerned by the increasing instability of the DPRK.

[KeithW]

I've often heard that overlanding to India was much easier until the 1970s, when Iran was still very much open to the West, Afghanistan was at peace and the India-Pakistan tensions did not quite keep that border closed. Now the border crossings are much more complex and Iran to Pakistan leaves you with a choice between a Southerly route through Baluchistan and a Northerly route through Afghanistan - both areas with negative travel advices.

One of my few regrets from the 70's was not joining some of my college friends who bought up a beat up old Bee Line coach and drove the Hippie Trail through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan to India. When they were done they sold the coach in Delhi and flew back. I was too busy making big Wonga in the North Sea Oil boom. It was all apparently rather relaxed and Iran and Afghanistan were thought to be rather safer and friendlier than Turkey. By the time I was ready the Iranians went and had their revolution and the Soviets intervened in Afghanistan which put paid to that idea. So while they were partying in Kabul I was working at Whessoe Dock Point making modules for the Ekofisk field.

[KeithW]

DPRK-China are rail crossings only indeed. India-Pakistan obviously varies together with the exact tensions between the countries, but stories from overlanders found using Mr Google suggest that foreigners with foreign licence plates will typically be allowed to cross.

There is some road traffic between the the DPRK and China at Dandong but its pretty much limited to citizens of the DPRK and China. There have been occasional DPRK tourist buses that would use the route to conduct foreign tourists on carefully planned routes but I believe that stopped some years ago.

[Chris Bertram]

With all this talk of difficult border crossings, let's remind ourselves that it's not so very long ago that road travel between Hamburg and Berlin would have been a minefield of bureaucracy requiring much forward planning, and even then there was the possibility of unforeseen delay, depending on what side of bed the DDR border guards had got out of.

[KeithW]

With all this talk of difficult border crossings, let's remind ourselves that it's not so very long ago that road travel between Hamburg and Berlin would have been a minefield of bureaucracy requiring much forward planning, and even then there was the possibility of unforeseen delay, depending on what side of bed the DDR border guards had got out of.

In the bad old days of the USSR they used to have roadside checks and woe betide the Soviet traveller WITHIN the USSR who didnt have his passport with him. Worse still if you were going to away from your official place of residence you had to get official permission (a Propiska) that permitted this.

[Octaviadriver]

With all this talk of difficult border crossings, let's remind ourselves that it's not so very long ago that road travel between Hamburg and Berlin would have been a minefield of bureaucracy requiring much forward planning, and even then there was the possibility of unforeseen delay, depending on what side of bed the DDR border guards had got out of.

If you were going to East Berlin, then yes. If you were going to West Berlin, you just needed to show your passport and get a transit visa. I did that journey several times with no trouble (and Helmstadt to Berlin) and didn't have to make any forward planning. When I went through East Germany to Czechoslovakia or Poland, especially if staying in the east on the way through, then yes, that was much more complicated, but it was always doable, so long as you had a valid passport and the right visa and papers.

[Chris Bertram]

With all this talk of difficult border crossings, let's remind ourselves that it's not so very long ago that road travel between Hamburg and Berlin would have been a minefield of bureaucracy requiring much forward planning, and even then there was the possibility of unforeseen delay, depending on what side of bed the DDR border guards had got out of.

If you were going to East Berlin, then yes. If you were going to West Berlin, you just needed to show your passport and get a transit visa. I did that journey several times with no trouble (and Helmstadt to Berlin) and didn't have to make any forward planning. When I went through East Germany to Czechoslovakia or Poland, especially if staying in the east on the way through, then yes, that was much more complicated, but it was always doable, so long as you had a valid passport and the right visa and papers.

AIUI it was much more problematic for Germans, citizens of the BRD anyway (citizens of the DDR were barely able to travel into West Germany at all). Quite a few of them had relatives just over the border, and had to jump through all sorts of hoops to be allowed to visit them, and of course had to exchange a certain amount of currency per day, which had to be spent or be lost. The easiest way for Germans to travel from the West to Berlin was to fly, that way avoiding any contact with the DDR officials.