US and the roundabout

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odlum
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US and the roundabout

Post by odlum »

I see roundabouts are increasing in popularity in some places in the States.

Anyone find it a bit sad if the USA becomes littered with roundabouts? It's so unAmerican :?
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Peter Freeman »

From my observations, the Americans haven't used roundabouts to join major, high-flow roads. They are used on local roads, often at multi-arm junctions that are otherwise difficult to provision, etc. They are not large, as many UK ones are: all the modern ones that I have seen are small, sometimes single-lane. Also, I have not noticed any that are signalised, except for pedestrian crossings on the arms. In summary, I believe the USA is using roundabouts appropriately.
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Re: US and the roundabout

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Peter Freeman wrote:From my observations, the Americans haven't used roundabouts to join major, high-flow roads. They are used on local roads, often at multi-arm junctions that are otherwise difficult to provision, etc. They are not large, as many UK ones are: all the modern ones that I have seen are small, sometimes single-lane. Also, I have not noticed any that are signalised, except for pedestrian crossings on the arms. In summary, I believe the USA is using roundabouts appropriately.
There are a few larger roundabouts (or Rotaries in US parlance). I have driven around this one on the main road to Cape Cod,

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.74378 ... authuser=0

And this one

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.68663 ... authuser=0

And of course Columbus Circle in New York City.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.76794 ... authuser=0

Apparently smaller UK style roundabouts are becoming much more common in the less densely populated parts of the USA such as Washington State where they are actively building new examples

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/News/2013/06/0 ... tSound.htm

Their conclusions are interesting
“These roundabouts will make it safer and easier for drivers to enter or exit the highways,” said Janice Fahning WSDOT project engineer. “All of these intersections have experienced plenty of collisions. The traffic volumes are increasing as well. The roundabouts will help move traffic more efficiently and reduce collisions.”

Roundabout benefits
Roundabouts reduced injury crashes by 75 percent at intersections where stop signs or signals were previously used, according to a study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Roundabouts also achieve a 37 percent reduction in overall collisions.
Here is what they built in this case.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.56746 ... authuser=0
Last edited by KeithW on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Mark Hewitt »

At the same time I wouldn't characterise roundabout as a UK think, IME France and Spain love them as much as we do!
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Osthagen »

odlum wrote:I see roundabouts are increasing in popularity in some places in the States.

Anyone find it a bit sad if the USA becomes littered with roundabouts? It's so unAmerican :?
True, it is fairly un-American, but at the same time, I can’t say I find it in any way ‘sad’. Roundabouts can be quite an elegant solution to a great deal of America’s traffic problems. Saying that America is now ‘littered’ with roundabouts is certainly pushing it. Certainly more have popped up. I remember being intrigued by the idea of roundabouts, having seen one for the first time when I moved to Edinburgh after spending the first three years of my life in Georgia (the state, obviously). But you can hardly say that they’re now all over the shop.

Does anyone know of grade-separated roundabout interchanges, which make up a large number of the GSJs in Britain today, have made their way to America yet? I certainly haven’t seen any.
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Re: US and the roundabout

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Osthagen wrote:Does anyone know of grade-separated roundabout interchanges, which make up a large number of the GSJs in Britain today, have made their way to America yet? I certainly haven’t seen any.
Massachussetts has some grade separated rotaries, which frighten the bejeezus out of non-locals. There are several on I-95/93 around south Boston.

To really upset Peter Freeman though, here is a bona fide 3 level roundabout in New Orleans: https://goo.gl/maps/EEbxa9qa3zx
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Bryn666 »

Peter Freeman wrote:From my observations, the Americans haven't used roundabouts to join major, high-flow roads. They are used on local roads, often at multi-arm junctions that are otherwise difficult to provision, etc. They are not large, as many UK ones are: all the modern ones that I have seen are small, sometimes single-lane. Also, I have not noticed any that are signalised, except for pedestrian crossings on the arms. In summary, I believe the USA is using roundabouts appropriately.
This is better known as "continental geometry" in the UK; as the idea of the roundabout is moved away from a high speed weaving zone to a single lane circulatory re-balancing priority. The lower speeds make them infinitely safer, and more efficient, than a multi-way Stop sign. This has been tested by the Mythbusters too.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Bryn666 wrote:
Peter Freeman wrote:From my observations, the Americans haven't used roundabouts to join major, high-flow roads. They are used on local roads, often at multi-arm junctions that are otherwise difficult to provision, etc. They are not large, as many UK ones are: all the modern ones that I have seen are small, sometimes single-lane. Also, I have not noticed any that are signalised, except for pedestrian crossings on the arms. In summary, I believe the USA is using roundabouts appropriately.
This is better known as "continental geometry" in the UK; as the idea of the roundabout is moved away from a high speed weaving zone to a single lane circulatory re-balancing priority. The lower speeds make them infinitely safer, and more efficient, than a multi-way Stop sign. This has been tested by the Mythbusters too.
From time to time I do hear Americans say that the UK uses roundabouts where they'd use a 4 way stop. Which I don't think is entirely accurate, I would say in most cases where Americans have a 4 way stop we just have a simple give way with priority to the 'main' road.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Bryn666 »

Canada provides the ultimate exception: a rural 4-way stop on a road signposted as an autoroute.

https://goo.gl/maps/LgL3EHvyevP2

This would definitely be a roundabout here.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Bryn666 wrote:Canada provides the ultimate exception: a rural 4-way stop on a road signposted as an autoroute.

https://goo.gl/maps/LgL3EHvyevP2

This would definitely be a roundabout here.
That junction seems completely mad! Yes, should be a roundabout!
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Osthagen »

Bryn666 wrote: Massachussetts has some grade separated rotaries, which frighten the bejeezus out of non-locals. There are several on I-95/93 around south Boston.
I drove the full I-95, including the Massachusetts section just under two years ago. It’s strange I didn’t notice these junctions. Have they been there a very long time?
Last edited by Osthagen on Thu Mar 08, 2018 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by KeithW »

Mark Hewitt wrote:
From time to time I do hear Americans say that the UK uses roundabouts where they'd use a 4 way stop. Which I don't think is entirely accurate, I would say in most cases where Americans have a 4 way stop we just have a simple give way with priority to the 'main' road.
That used to be the case. In Worthington Ohio most 4 way stops were on residential streets and where mainly there to slow drivers do and enforce speed limits. There was a classic example close to where I lived.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.08646 ... 312!8i6656

On major routes they tended to use signalised junctions.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.07397 ... 312!8i6656

Outside the rush hour the lights would go to flashing amber on the main route (Sawmill Road) and flashing red on the side roads. Flashing red means the same as a stop sign while flashing amber means proceed with care.

However in recent years ODOT have been replacing such intersections with roundabouts as they are seen as safer.
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D ... fault.aspx
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D ... %20235.pdf
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Bryn666 »

Osthagen wrote:
Bryn666 wrote: Massachussetts has some grade separated rotaries, which frighten the bejeezus out of non-locals. There are several on I-95/93 around south Boston.
I drove the full I-95, including the Massachusetts section just under two years ago. It strange I didn’t notice these junctions. Have they been there a very long time?
Since they were built :wink:

You wouldn't notice them from the mainline, they're not built the same as UK ones so are not as obvious.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by RichardA626 »

I've heard New Jersey has a lot of Traffic Circles.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Truvelo »

Four way stops do have their advantages where there is a dominant turning flow which affects roundabouts. As traffic from each approach takes it in turn to emerge it allows traffic downstream of the major flow to emerge whereas with a roundabout they would have to wait for a gap in the traffic.

On quiet side roads they are a nuisance and unless I see a cop I will just slow to a crawl and then pull away without actually stopping. This seems to be the norm.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Burns »

When I drove in California, I came across a few roundabouts but I also encountered this nasty 4-way stop in Mariposa. The rules appeared to be that you went in the order you arrived but it was often too busy to properly keep tabs on who arrived when. A roundabout would have been much nicer.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Truvelo »

I have arrived at a 4 way stop exactly the same time as a car coming from the left or right. I try to avoid this by adjusting my speed but when it happens I just wait for the other vehicle to emerge first. It's better than smashing the hire car and paying a huge excess :)
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by KeithW »

Burns wrote:When I drove in California, I came across a few roundabouts but I also encountered this nasty 4-way stop in Mariposa. The rules appeared to be that you went in the order you arrived but it was often too busy to properly keep tabs on who arrived when. A roundabout would have been much nicer.
That is a terrible place to put a 4 way stop. In summer I imagine there are long queues in all directions leading to frayed tempers.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Viator »

odlum wrote:I see roundabouts are increasing in popularity in some places in the States.

Anyone find it a bit sad if the USA becomes littered with roundabouts? It's so unAmerican :?
Sad? Not at all! Just pleased that the ingrained "we-know-nothing-and-don't-give-a-dang" attitude to such matters is finally beginning to crumble, allowing a little of the light of reason to penetrate. We can only hope that metric measures and use of the 24-hour clock will eventually follow... :wink:

I won't mention the use in the OP of the boo-word "littered". Oops, too late!
Last edited by Viator on Thu Mar 08, 2018 23:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US and the roundabout

Post by Viator »

Mark Hewitt wrote:At the same time I wouldn't characterise roundabout as a UK think, IME France and Spain love them as much as we do!
Actually, even the French recognize that the "modern roundabout" (in which priority is given to traffic already engaged on the roundabout) is a British invention -- and such deference is not something they typically find easy to show! It's quite true, nevertheless, that once the decision was taken to go for the use of modern roundabouts, France fell in love with them in a very big way, and there are, I believe, figures in existence (can't give you the reference just now) which show that France now has the highest density of roundabouts per network-kilometre of any country in the world.
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