EU Core Network Corridors - North-South links

[roadtester]

Interesting article from the Economist on the big investments in the EU's Core Network Corridors, especially North/South routes, including the forthcoming investments in Copenhagen/Hamburg links:

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/2 ... rmoexpress

[RichardA35]

Interesting article from the Economist on the big investments in the EU's Core Network Corridors, especially North/South routes, including the forthcoming investments in Copenhagen/Hamburg links:

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/2 ... rmoexpress

Interesting that the route avoids France and the anachronistic freight practices that have so frustrated cross-channel rail freight.
In passing, I'd understood anecdotally that moving a truck from Scandinavia to Spain and vice versa was more achieved more economically by using ferries to and from the UK and taking advantage of the free motorway network (and using the ferries for drivers' breaks) rather than using the surface tolled network of Germany and France.

[roadtester]

Interesting article from the Economist on the big investments in the EU's Core Network Corridors, especially North/South routes, including the forthcoming investments in Copenhagen/Hamburg links:

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/2 ... rmoexpress

Interesting that the route avoids France and the anachronistic freight practices that have so frustrated cross-channel rail freight.
In passing, I'd understood anecdotally that moving a truck from Scandinavia to Spain and vice versa was more achieved more economically by using ferries to and from the UK and taking advantage of the free motorway network (and using the ferries for drivers' breaks) rather than using the surface tolled network of Germany and France.

I can believe it - the French tolls are a significant factor. When I drove to Geneva recently, I didn't go directly through France but skirted around it as much as possible via Belgium and Luxembourg. It was only slightly further but combined with cheap fill-ups in Lux, I probably saved well over £100.

[Vierwielen]

This tunnel parallels the St Gotthard Base Tunnel in Switzerland, which is of a similar length. The Brenner Pass Tunnel will give traffic between Germany and Italy the choice of traversing Swiss or Austrian territory when passing through the Alps. The article did not give any indication of an equivalent to "Le Shuttle", possibly because neither the Swiss nor the Austrians want lots of 44-tonners passing through their territory. In fact, I recall reading some years ago that once the St Gotthard Base Tunnel was open, the Swiss would prohibit such HGVs from their territory.

[Norfolktolancashire]

Interesting article from the Economist on the big investments in the EU's Core Network Corridors, especially North/South routes, including the forthcoming investments in Copenhagen/Hamburg links:

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/2 ... rmoexpress

Interesting that the route avoids France and the anachronistic freight practices that have so frustrated cross-channel rail freight.
In passing, I'd understood anecdotally that moving a truck from Scandinavia to Spain and vice versa was more achieved more economically by using ferries to and from the UK and taking advantage of the free motorway network (and using the ferries for drivers' breaks) rather than using the surface tolled network of Germany and France.

I can believe it - the French tolls are a significant factor. When I drove to Geneva recently, I didn't go directly through France but skirted around it as much as possible via Belgium and Luxembourg. It was only slightly further but combined with cheap fill-ups in Lux, I probably saved well over £100.

I drove from Geneva to Calais last autumn via the French autoroutes and it cost 70 euros one way!

[Vierwielen]

Interesting that the route avoids France and the anachronistic freight practices that have so frustrated cross-channel rail freight.
In passing, I'd understood anecdotally that moving a truck from Scandinavia to Spain and vice versa was more achieved more economically by using ferries to and from the UK and taking advantage of the free motorway network (and using the ferries for drivers' breaks) rather than using the surface tolled network of Germany and France.

I can believe it - the French tolls are a significant factor. When I drove to Geneva recently, I didn't go directly through France but skirted around it as much as possible via Belgium and Luxembourg. It was only slightly further but combined with cheap fill-ups in Lux, I probably saved well over £100.

I drove from Geneva to Calais last autumn via the French autoroutes and it cost 70 euros one way!

Out of interest, I looked at this journey on viaMichelin. Rather than Geneva, I chose the village of Verney-Voltaire (1 km from Geneva airport and the Swiss Border ) as my start point to give me a guaranteed option of avoiding Swiss motorway tax.. The results that I got were:

Most economic route: 740 km in 11h26; cost €68.94

Quickest route: 825 km in 7h25; cost €175.64 (incl €75.20 tolls & €35.75 Swiss road tax)

Michelin recommended: 746 km in 7h50; cost €117.01 (incl €55.70 tolls)

[roadtester]

I can believe it - the French tolls are a significant factor. When I drove to Geneva recently, I didn't go directly through France but skirted around it as much as possible via Belgium and Luxembourg. It was only slightly further but combined with cheap fill-ups in Lux, I probably saved well over £100.

I drove from Geneva to Calais last autumn via the French autoroutes and it cost 70 euros one way!

Out of interest, I looked at this journey on viaMichelin. Rather than Geneva, I chose the village of Verney-Voltaire (1 km from Geneva airport and the Swiss Border ) as my start point to give me a guaranteed option of avoiding Swiss motorway tax.. The results that I got were:

Most economic route: 740 km in 11h26; cost €68.94

Quickest route: 825 km in 7h25; cost €175.64 (incl €75.20 tolls & €35.75 Swiss road tax)

Michelin recommended: 746 km in 7h50; cost €117.01 (incl €55.70 tolls)

Actually, strictly speaking, my trip to was to Ferney Voltaire on the French side rather than Geneva as well because that's where my cheapo hotel was when I went to the Geneva motor show!

I did look at trying to do a route that avoided Switzerland completely, and also trying to get through Switzerland without using the motorways in order to avoid buying the Swiss vignette.

Both would have been perfectly doable but given that I would be driving that section in the dark with the prospect of snow, I decided to get the vignette - mainly because I expect to get proper use out of it again later in the year with at least one traverse of Switzerland.

[wibble]

The article did not give any indication of an equivalent to "Le Shuttle", possibly because neither the Swiss nor the Austrians want lots of 44-tonners passing through their territory.

Most "rolling road" trains start much further away - for instance Wikipedia mentions that one set of trains starts in Triest for trucks arriving on the ferry from Greece/Turkey.

I know that trains are formed up elsewhere, for example, in the shunting yards near my house in north-west Munich. It is quite impressive to watch as the trains enter the mainline south west towards Moosach.

I don't think the loading happens there though, this seems to be happening in a similar freight area to the east of Munich. In this view you can see, for example a couple containers, plus road trailer on train waggon (white "Warovy OY" and red one with white roof to the right).

[SarahJ]

The cross Switzerland 'rolling road' ones start at Freiburg Here: https://goo.gl/maps/HH3iauymgR52 by http://www.ralpin.com/company/

The ones wibble spots going from Rhiem yard are mainly just lorry trailers placed on wagons. A RL loading bay was set up at Rhiem when it opened, but it has not seen service for a while.
Here they are in HO scale: http://www.roco.cc/responsebinary.asp?i ... 5703230959


The Brenner trains load up at Wogal and here is the website https://www.rola.at/http:/

[Owain]

I can believe it - the French tolls are a significant factor. When I drove to Geneva recently, I didn't go directly through France but skirted around it as much as possible via Belgium and Luxembourg. It was only slightly further but combined with cheap fill-ups in Lux, I probably saved well over £100.

I drove from Geneva to Calais last autumn via the French autoroutes and it cost 70 euros one way!

Out of interest, I looked at this journey on viaMichelin. Rather than Geneva, I chose the village of Verney-Voltaire (1 km from Geneva airport and the Swiss Border ) as my start point to give me a guaranteed option of avoiding Swiss motorway tax.. The results that I got were:

Most economic route: 740 km in 11h26; cost €68.94

Quickest route: 825 km in 7h25; cost €175.64 (incl €75.20 tolls & €35.75 Swiss road tax)

Michelin recommended: 746 km in 7h50; cost €117.01 (incl €55.70 tolls)

I think the advantages of the smooth surface, low traffic volumes, frequent rest areas, and advance warnings of speed cameras makes the French autoroutes a sublime driving experience. The only problem is that they get a bit boring, as there is so little to do!

In 2016 I entered the Mont Blanc Tunnel at 1316 in the afternoon, according to my ticket. I was in Calais an hour before my 2300 ferry, and I'd had several coffee stops and a 'lunch' break along the way.

They're expensive, but if you're interested in making progress (i.e. getting to Italy as fast as possible, and with minimum hassle) the French autoroutes are well worth it. By contrast, the time I drove across Germany (110mph on the autobahn - yay!), the experience was mired by a massive accident just after the Dutch border, heavy traffic and ridiculous tailgating in the Westphalia area, generally poor (i.e. British standard) road surface with pot holes and gaps between slabs of concrete, and of course the need to pay for a vignette to use the Austrian (or Swiss) motorways.

[roadtester]

Actually most of the route via Luxembourg is motorways, it's just not tolled - although there is still at least 100 miles of non-motorway as well.

[Norfolktolancashire]

I drove from Geneva to Calais last autumn via the French autoroutes and it cost 70 euros one way!

Out of interest, I looked at this journey on viaMichelin. Rather than Geneva, I chose the village of Verney-Voltaire (1 km from Geneva airport and the Swiss Border ) as my start point to give me a guaranteed option of avoiding Swiss motorway tax.. The results that I got were:

Most economic route: 740 km in 11h26; cost €68.94

Quickest route: 825 km in 7h25; cost €175.64 (incl €75.20 tolls & €35.75 Swiss road tax)

Michelin recommended: 746 km in 7h50; cost €117.01 (incl €55.70 tolls)

I think the advantages of the smooth surface, low traffic volumes, frequent rest areas, and advance warnings of speed cameras makes the French autoroutes a sublime driving experience. The only problem is that they get a bit boring, as there is so little to do!

In 2016 I entered the Mont Blanc Tunnel at 1316 in the afternoon, according to my ticket. I was in Calais an hour before my 2300 ferry, and I'd had several coffee stops and a 'lunch' break along the way.

They're expensive, but if you're interested in making progress (i.e. getting to Italy as fast as possible, and with minimum hassle) the French autoroutes are well worth it. By contrast, the time I drove across Germany (110mph on the autobahn - yay!), the experience was mired by a massive accident just after the Dutch border, heavy traffic and ridiculous tailgating in the Westphalia area, generally poor (i.e. British standard) road surface with pot holes and gaps between slabs of concrete, and of course the need to pay for a vignette to use the Austrian (or Swiss) motorways.

I found some of the main roads in France quite lightly trafficed, although when going through even a small town the amount of pedestrian crossings/zebra crossings? made slower progress. The speed limit has now dropped to 80kph for these roads so will take longer (although probably more scope for local drivers to find my car boot more attractive than ever!)
The autoroutes I took from Chamonix to Calais were quiet as you say, in fact the ones from Dijon northwestwards were very quiet.

[Vierwielen]

I can believe it - the French tolls are a significant factor. When I drove to Geneva recently, I didn't go directly through France but skirted around it as much as possible via Belgium and Luxembourg. It was only slightly further but combined with cheap fill-ups in Lux, I probably saved well over £100.

I drove from Geneva to Calais last autumn via the French autoroutes and it cost 70 euros one way!

Out of interest, I looked at this journey on viaMichelin. Rather than Geneva, I chose the village of Verney-Voltaire (1 km from Geneva airport and the Swiss Border ) as my start point to give me a guaranteed option of avoiding Swiss motorway tax.. The results that I got were:

Most economic route: 740 km in 11h26; cost €68.94

Quickest route: 825 km in 7h25; cost €175.64 (incl €75.20 tolls & €35.75 Swiss road tax)

Michelin recommended: 746 km in 7h50; cost €117.01 (incl €55.70 tolls)

I calculated the economics of the various routes. The quickest route is the best if one values one's time at more than €136/h, followed by the Michelin-recommended if one values one's time at between €13.35 and €136 per hour (€58.63 cheaper than the quickest route, but paying a time penalty of 25 minutes), otherwise one should take the most economic route (€106.70 cheaper than the quickest route, but a time penalty of 4h25 over the quickest route or €48.07 cheaper than the Michelin-recommended route, but with a time penalty of 3h36).