[F] 80kph limit passes into law for secondary routes

[baroudeur]

Latest info on the 80kph saga. It's in French but has pictures!

https://tinyurl.com/yaf6zu6u

[SouthWest Philip]

The pictures in that link clearly demonstrate what dogs breakfast this new law is! For the sake of 6mph and unnecessary ambiguity it really isn't worth it. But typically French in it's execution!

[Bryn666]

Classic fudge, especially if some departments aren't doing it.

And if you do find a surviving suicide lane in France it's still 80. Good to know you'll only have a 160km/h closing speed instead of 180

[Truvelo]

We could do with adopting that French fudge over here where S4's are often wrongly assumed to be dual carriageways and the limit is therefore mistakenly believed to be 70mph. Perhaps allowing 70mph on the two lane side of S2+1 would also be helpful in allowing a brisk overtake of slower traffic without risk of persecution by cameras.

In all the Frogs have a sound idea but have implemented it wrong by lowering the default limit instead of introducing a higher limit for the overtaking sections.

[exiled]

The speed limit signs at the Channel Tunnel still show '90'. The crossing into Belgium at De Panne show the Flemish regional limits, with the S2 limit as 70 km/h.

[carawaystick]

There were 80 limit signs up on the S2 Motorway D618 in PO this month from le Bolou to Argelés sur Mer

and 90 signs on the overtaking lane sections of roads in Brittany and Normandy I drove on

[Nicholas]

This is how the border sign on the D23 north of Bailleul, Nord was updated mid-last week. Prior to then the 90 roundel had been greyed out.

[Bryn666]

This is how the border sign on the D23 north of Bailleul, Nord was updated mid-last week. Prior to then the 90 roundel had been greyed out.

P7290247.jpg

Ouch, that's... not very tidy. It almost feels as if they're hoping they can take the 80 roundel back off!

[Nicholas]

Ouch, that's... not very tidy. It almost feels as if they're hoping they can take the 80 roundel back off!

That's what I thought.

[FosseWay]

This is how the border sign on the D23 north of Bailleul, Nord was updated mid-last week. Prior to then the 90 roundel had been greyed out.

P7290247.jpg

Ouch, that's... not very tidy. It almost feels as if they're hoping they can take the 80 roundel back off!

Theoretically, the 80 limit is for a test period to see whether it results in safety improvements. If it doesn't, they will theoretically reinstate the 90. Part of the problem with changes of the "let's see if this works in real life" kind is that once the infrastructure has been changed to accommodate the new requirements, it becomes politically difficult to justify the cost of reversing the change if it turns out to be useless (or positively counterproductive). This seems like a good compromise - even if the main reason for sticking that untidy roundel on is really just pennypinching rather than future-proofing.

[Chris Bertram]

This is how the border sign on the D23 north of Bailleul, Nord was updated mid-last week. Prior to then the 90 roundel had been greyed out.

P7290247.jpg

Ouch, that's... not very tidy. It almost feels as if they're hoping they can take the 80 roundel back off!

Theoretically, the 80 limit is for a test period to see whether it results in safety improvements. If it doesn't, they will theoretically reinstate the 90. Part of the problem with changes of the "let's see if this works in real life" kind is that once the infrastructure has been changed to accommodate the new requirements, it becomes politically difficult to justify the cost of reversing the change if it turns out to be useless (or positively counterproductive). This seems like a good compromise - even if the main reason for sticking that untidy roundel on is really just pennypinching rather than future-proofing.

And anyway, the success criteria for this, if similar criteria for speed limit drops in the UK are to be copied, are that reductions in average speeds will be considered a success in and of themselves, regardless of the effects on accidents. I predict that there is *zero* chance of this being declared a failure and reverted.

[roadtester]

According to this, the French had 3684 road deaths last year (roughly double the UK level) and reckon the new law will reduce this total by 400 a year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... ed-limits/

I think it's very likely that in those terms, it will be a success and it will be all but impossible to reinstate the old limit.

Of course, any reduction in the limit is almost certain to reduce road deaths and reducing the limit to zero would reduce road deaths to zero. But we are probably too squeamish to have a proper debate about the trade-offs involved.

[JosephA22]

Has anyone on here driven any reasonable distances on French S2 since the new limit came into force? Is there any noticeable drop in actual speeds, or are people generally driving at the same speeds as they did prior to the change?

[Hagbard]

Has anyone on here driven any reasonable distances on French S2 since the new limit came into force? Is there any noticeable drop in actual speeds, or are people generally driving at the same speeds as they did prior to the change?

I was on holiday for the second fortnight in July in the Ain 01 Department (southern Jura, between Lyon and Annecy). The new limit seemed to be respected on main roads, (most of which used to be N roads) but apparently this is because that's where all the enforcement is. On lower grade D roads there didn't appear to be any conformity with either the new or the old limit.

[Bryn666]

Has anyone on here driven any reasonable distances on French S2 since the new limit came into force? Is there any noticeable drop in actual speeds, or are people generally driving at the same speeds as they did prior to the change?

I was on holiday for the second fortnight in July in the Ain 01 Department (southern Jura, between Lyon and Annecy). The new limit seemed to be respected on main roads, (most of which used to be N roads) but apparently this is because that's where all the enforcement is. On lower grade D roads there didn't appear to be any conformity with either the new or the old limit.

Which unfortunately proves the human nature element of speed limit compliance - people are more afraid of getting caught than appreciating why the limit might be what it is. That said, 80km/h on the Napoleonic ruler straight tree-lined ex-N roads must be absolutely tedious but that's where all the fatalities seem to be due to crazy overtakes and misjudging the speed of others because of the ruler straight nature...

[exiled]

Has anyone on here driven any reasonable distances on French S2 since the new limit came into force? Is there any noticeable drop in actual speeds, or are people generally driving at the same speeds as they did prior to the change?

I was on holiday for the second fortnight in July in the Ain 01 Department (southern Jura, between Lyon and Annecy). The new limit seemed to be respected on main roads, (most of which used to be N roads) but apparently this is because that's where all the enforcement is. On lower grade D roads there didn't appear to be any conformity with either the new or the old limit.

Which unfortunately proves the human nature element of speed limit compliance - people are more afraid of getting caught than appreciating why the limit might be what it is. That said, 80km/h on the Napoleonic ruler straight tree-lined ex-N roads must be absolutely tedious but that's where all the fatalities seem to be due to crazy overtakes and misjudging the speed of others because of the ruler straight nature...

Across the border in Belgium the lower Flemish 70 km/h limit does not appear to be respected, but the drivers do seem to keep below the old 90 on similar roads.

[A303Chris]

Has anyone on here driven any reasonable distances on French S2 since the new limit came into force? Is there any noticeable drop in actual speeds, or are people generally driving at the same speeds as they did prior to the change?

I was in southern France the end of last month and did a lot of driving. Have to say after trying to stick at 80 and having vehicles on my arse over taking I reverted back to 90 like everyone else!!!!

[Roavin]

Has anyone on here driven any reasonable distances on French S2 since the new limit came into force? Is there any noticeable drop in actual speeds, or are people generally driving at the same speeds as they did prior to the change?

I was in southern France the end of last month and did a lot of driving. Have to say after trying to stick at 80 and having vehicles on my arse over taking I reverted back to 90 like everyone else!!!!

Exactly, this new speed limit is bad news, 80 kph on some single carriageways feels like driving backwards!

[FosseWay]

Which unfortunately proves the human nature element of speed limit compliance - people are more afraid of getting caught than appreciating why the limit might be what it is.

But quite often, the limit is what it is purely because some other fallible human beings played pin the tail on the donkey. There is no other reasonable explanation for the fact that bog-standard S2s are 100 km/h in Germany and the UK (give or take), 70 in Sweden and Flanders and 80 or 90 in various other places. There *is* no rime or reason to blanket limits, and drivers know this. You get much better compliance with limits that reflect the nature of what is going on around them, such as urban 30 mph or roadworks on motorways at 50, and less good where the limit is clearly the result of someone saying "roads of category X will have limit Y".

I don't doubt that there are problems with head-ons on straight French ex-N roads. But is reducing the limit going to help, given that the people most likely to pull stupid overtakes are also the least likely to obey the limit? Put another way, a lot of the head-ons will have been caused by people wanting to go faster than the old 90 limit - most people most of the time can overtake a tractor safely but may misjudge how much time they need when they're doing 110 and the vehicle they're passing is doing 90. Is there any evidence whatsoever that these people will obey the 80 any more than the 90? There is surely a risk that by getting law-abiding people to reduce to 80, you just increase the number of obstacles that the MBIF brigade feel the need to pass.

[Berk]

Are there any N-roads or similar with a 100km/h limit?? Or is it all 80/90 now??