[F] 80kph limit passes into law for secondary routes

[exiled]

In my experience, the French drive far more slowly now than I remember them doing when my dad drove us around France on family holidays during the '80s and '90s. Most of them seem to stick to the boring 90km/h, and - perhaps most surprisingly of all - the 50km/h limit in urban areas.

I remember when I first drove in France the urban limit was 60km/h.

That lasted for a surprisingly long time. 60 km/h isn't used at all now, it's 30, 50, 70, 90, 110, 130.

30th November 1990 the law changed that saw the urban limit drop from 60 to 50 km/h. (90-1060)

In 2003 there was also a major legal change in the Code de la Route that introduced stiffer speed enforcements, penalty points, harder fines IIRC as part of President Chirac's vow to make French roads safer.

[Steven]

According to several VMSs I passed on autoroutes today, it applies to "routes sans séparateurs" hence rural S2s.

[exiled]

That agrees with what is on legifrance.fr and in the JORF. The law does suggest that where there is an overtaking lane it can be 90 in that direction only.

This is not unusual. Luxembourg does this where there is an overtaking lane it can be 110 instead of 90.

[Owain]

According to several VMSs I passed on autoroutes today, it applies to "routes sans séparateurs" hence rural S2s.

Where are you? .... France is a Sabristic dream!

This is not unusual. Luxembourg does this where there is an overtaking lane it can be 110 instead of 90.

True - I've driven (pretty much) all of the N7. It was very noticeable that people would boot it when the S2+1 appeared.

I booted it too, although unfortunately I was driving an asthmatic VW Polo, so it didn't make much difference!

[Steven]

According to several VMSs I passed on autoroutes today, it applies to "routes sans séparateurs" hence rural S2s.

Where are you? .... France is a Sabristic dream!

I'm on the west coast - so lots of 130km/h driving on empty autoroutes. It's just too far to take the N route alternatives with kids in the back. Although it's quite nice having to go via Rouen and Le Mans if you like driving on old/extant racing circuits.

[Owain]

According to several VMSs I passed on autoroutes today, it applies to "routes sans séparateurs" hence rural S2s.

Where are you? .... France is a Sabristic dream!

I'm on the west coast - so lots of 130km/h driving on empty autoroutes. It's just too far to take the N route alternatives with kids in the back. Although it's quite nice having to go via Rouen and Le Mans if you like driving on old/extant racing circuits.

Fantastic! Happy holidays!!

I have both the N10 and N12 on my 'to drive' lists!

[Bryn666]

D910 doesn't have the same ring to it as N10 does it.

Still better than DN7 though. What the heck kind of number is that!

[nowster]

I wonder if they look askance at our Ax(M) numbers.

[Nwallace]

On that stretch between Villasor and Villacidro, which is dead straight for (IIRC) 14 km and actually quite narrow, I have seen half a dozen cars all queued up on the wrong side of the road during rush hour, overtaking a dozen or so vehicles travelling more slowly on the right side. Some moves might have lasted for a whole kilometre, while others were simply playing leap-frog in the gaps between oncoming traffic.

Sounds a bit like here: https://goo.gl/maps/oLTw3zF6Zbo
Possibly without the hidden dips...

[Owain]

D910 doesn't have the same ring to it as N10 does it.

Still better than DN7 though. What the heck kind of number is that!

There is still a lengthy stretch of N10 between Poitiers and Bordeaux.

I think the French have been quite reluctant to savage the old N numbers; many of the old N signs are still present on routes that have been downgraded to to D6xx or D9xx. I've seen plenty of example on the former N19, N71 and N7 (including right on the Italian border, as stated on the Lyon A6/A7 thread).

I do think the loss of the old numbers is a shame, much like the savaging of routes like the A34 and A41 in the UK.

[exiled]

D910 doesn't have the same ring to it as N10 does it.

Still better than DN7 though. What the heck kind of number is that!

There is still a lengthy stretch of N10 between Poitiers and Bordeaux.

I think the French have been quite reluctant to savage the old N numbers; many of the old N signs are still present on routes that have been downgraded to to D6xx or D9xx. I've seen plenty of example on the former N19, N71 and N7 (including right on the Italian border, as stated on the Lyon A6/A7 thread).

I do think the loss of the old numbers is a shame, much like the savaging of routes like the A34 and A41 in the UK.

A good short cut for avoiding the tolls on the A10, mainly D2 with a 110 limit.

[Bryn666]

D910 doesn't have the same ring to it as N10 does it.

Still better than DN7 though. What the heck kind of number is that!

There is still a lengthy stretch of N10 between Poitiers and Bordeaux...

A good short cut for avoiding the tolls on the A10, mainly D2 with a 110 limit.

I looked at my 1988 Michelin to see whether the main surviving bit of N10 was always D2... it wasn't. It's a reaction to people avoiding the longer A10 route. The other surviving bit south of Bordeaux recently became the A63 (and is now tolled I believe).

[exiled]

There is still a lengthy stretch of N10 between Poitiers and Bordeaux...

A good short cut for avoiding the tolls on the A10, mainly D2 with a 110 limit.

I looked at my 1988 Michelin to see whether the main surviving bit of N10 was always D2... it wasn't. It's a reaction to people avoiding the longer A10 route. The other surviving bit south of Bordeaux recently became the A63 (and is now tolled I believe).

Yes on both. IIRC the tolling through the Landes was not popular to say the least.

[Bryn666]

Highway plans unpopular with the French? Never in a million years

Having been reading SARA lately it seems that road schemes in France are more subject to the whims of the public being f i c k l e than ones here are.

(edit: why is f i c k l e censored? It's a legitmate non-sweary phrase)

[exiled]

I think it was more the tolls than the road.

[mikehindsonevans]

Highway plans unpopular with the French? Never in a million years

Having been reading SARA lately it seems that road schemes in France are more subject to the whims of the public being f i c k l e than ones here are.

(edit: why is f i c k l e censored? It's a legitmate non-sweary phrase)

Probably from the same silliness which killed off the email system in Scunthorpe council some years back!

[A303Chris]

I'm off to France next week and have we decided what a secondary route is yet. For example the N79 between Moulins and the A71 is a mixture of HQDC and fast single carriageway with over bridges where the secondary carriageway hasn't been built yet as here, where they have put bollards in the middle of the road to stop overtaking. Will these roads still be 90 kph or are they getting the chop to 80 kph as well.

[Steven]

I'm off to France next week and have we decided what a secondary route is yet. For example the N79 between Moulins and the A71 is a mixture of HQDC and fast single carriageway with over bridges where the secondary carriageway hasn't been built yet as here, where they have put bollards in the middle of the road to stop overtaking. Will these roads still be 90 kph or are they getting the chop to 80 kph as well.

Yes, we've worked out what they mean.

According to several VMSs I passed on autoroutes today, it applies to "routes sans séparateurs" hence rural S2s.

[Bryn666]

I'm off to France next week and have we decided what a secondary route is yet. For example the N79 between Moulins and the A71 is a mixture of HQDC and fast single carriageway with over bridges where the secondary carriageway hasn't been built yet as here, where they have put bollards in the middle of the road to stop overtaking. Will these roads still be 90 kph or are they getting the chop to 80 kph as well.

Unless specifically up-signed as 90, take them to be 80. Your wallet will appreciate it.

[exiled]

I'm off to France next week and have we decided what a secondary route is yet. For example the N79 between Moulins and the A71 is a mixture of HQDC and fast single carriageway with over bridges where the secondary carriageway hasn't been built yet as here, where they have put bollards in the middle of the road to stop overtaking. Will these roads still be 90 kph or are they getting the chop to 80 kph as well.

Unless specifically up-signed as 90, take them to be 80. Your wallet will appreciate it.

The legifrance website is this. No barrier = 80.