Is it time for France to introduce a new level of road classification?

[Bryn666]

Partly A32 and A34. The A32 went to Saarbrucken.

The 1982 autoroute numbering reforms changed a lot but left some oddities.

[brombeer]

At least the E roads are signed anyway, so on the ground it doesn't really matter that the A10 becomes the A63 at Bordeaux - it is still the E05.

Ah well, except that nobody really cares about E-numbers also because they are not as well signposted as A-numbers. Personally I would have liked an A10 all the way to Bayonne, an A6 to Marseille etc. It would have been worth the TOTSOs and the duplexes. But the French don't like duplexes above all, and that's probably what causes the changes at Bordeaux.

Following up on some other comments:
- the Italians have SR road not because that's useful for the motorist but because the roads have been brought in the hand of the (larger) region rather than that of the (smaller) province. In France they could pass roads like former RNs to the newly formed regions and number them accordingly. But in the end these numbers were brought to departments for a reason: despite history they are now of a largely local interest. The remaining trunk network of A (as grown over the years) and N (shrunk over the years) feels about right.

- It also follows that France is not too far away from an MABC distinction, except that it's more like ANDC. A for M is easy; British A is caught by both N and D -that is how broad British A is, and not really advantageous to the motorist-, French lower tier D probably equates British B, and then you have British and French C: hardly signposted. Apart from changing numbers at department borders, I don't think France is anywhere worse.

- there is indeed something weird in the three-digit D-roads being the most important D-roads. While it's something that you get used to very quickly, it's probably the one thing that justifies a complete renumbering.

[Nicholas]

The whole three-digit - and four-digit in places - numbering being the "more important" road is just a historical anomaly. When Nationales were downgraded, the numbers allocated by the Départements were purposely given to provide a hint back to the road's pedigree by including all or part of the N-number in the D-number. Given the smaller number was usually allocated decades ago, using such a large number just makes it very obvious.

I cannot see the need for a new road classification. The way road classification is going, I can see the days of the Nationale being numbered, with routes either upgraded to Autoroute or downgraded to Départementale. Given the French signpost by destination rather than road number, the important routes will continue to be signposted with green destinations.

Then again, you might as well give the Nationale a rebirth in that case! Although, Départements could still assume responsibility, they would just act as a secondary/regional network.

[Owain]

Then again, you might as well give the Nationale a rebirth in that case! Although, Départements could still assume responsibility, they would just act as a secondary/regional network.

Indeed - they still serve as the strategic routes for motorists who don't want to pay the tolls!

And many of the old N-numbered signposts are still in place.

[Bryn666]

The whole three-digit - and four-digit in places - numbering being the "more important" road is just a historical anomaly. When Nationales were downgraded, the numbers allocated by the Départements were purposely given to provide a hint back to the road's pedigree by including all or part of the N-number in the D-number. Given the smaller number was usually allocated decades ago, using such a large number just makes it very obvious.

I cannot see the need for a new road classification. The way road classification is going, I can see the days of the Nationale being numbered, with routes either upgraded to Autoroute or downgraded to Départementale. Given the French signpost by destination rather than road number, the important routes will continue to be signposted with green destinations.

Then again, you might as well give the Nationale a rebirth in that case! Although, Départements could still assume responsibility, they would just act as a secondary/regional network.

They just need to slap the people who came up with "DN7".

[JosephA22]

And many of the old N-numbered signposts are still in place.

And repaired rather than replaced with modern signs, it would appear. This one seemed to be falling apart in the 2011 Streetview photo, but there's a nice shiny new one in 2014.

[Bryn666]

And many of the old N-numbered signposts are still in place.

And repaired rather than replaced with modern signs, it would appear. This one seemed to be falling apart in the 2011 Streetview photo, but there's a nice shiny new one in 2014.

The Panneaux Michelins are made from reinforced concrete so it was just re-poured to restore it. They're considered part of roads folklore now and are all being cared for.

[exiled]

And many of the old N-numbered signposts are still in place.

And repaired rather than replaced with modern signs, it would appear. This one seemed to be falling apart in the 2011 Streetview photo, but there's a nice shiny new one in 2014.

The Panneaux Michelins are made from reinforced concrete so it was just re-poured to restore it. They're considered part of roads folklore now and are all being cared for.

The Nationale Sept has a place in French folklore as well, appearing in songs, films, in the Asterix comics and as an attraction at Parc Asterix.

[Nicholas]

The Panneaux Michelins are made from reinforced concrete so it was just re-poured to restore it. They're considered part of roads folklore now and are all being cared for.

Just a pity that attitude isn't observed in the UK.

[MJG]

Well... I believe nobody would call the French system a "system". In addition to A, C, D, E, N and M roads, there are such inventions like D7N, DN7, D2000bis, etc. Adding a new class would not reduce the complexity and randomness. They just travel to Toutes Directions via Autres Directions and then to Sortie.

[Chris Bertram]

Well... I believe nobody would call the French system a "system". In addition to A, C, D, E, N and M roads, there are such inventions like D7N, DN7, D2000bis, etc. Adding a new class would not reduce the complexity and randomness. They just travel to Toutes Directions via Autres Directions and then to Sortie.

Taking in Centre Ville on the way.

[Bryn666]

Well... I believe nobody would call the French system a "system". In addition to A, C, D, E, N and M roads, there are such inventions like D7N, DN7, D2000bis, etc. Adding a new class would not reduce the complexity and randomness. They just travel to Toutes Directions via Autres Directions and then to Sortie.

Taking in Centre Ville on the way.

Absolutely - always check which part of town the signs lead to, as the French will quite happily sign every possible area of town by using italicised suffices - including for industrial estates and commercial centres.

[Arcuarius]

The Panneaux Michelins are made from reinforced concrete so it was just re-poured to restore it. They're considered part of roads folklore now and are all being cared for.

Just a pity that attitude isn't observed in the UK.

Wouldn't be passively safe, you know...

[Nicholas]

Wouldn't be passively safe, you know...

Sorry, I wasn't meaning the concrete element, but the Pre-Warboys Signs to their Panneaux Michelin...

Well... I believe nobody would call the French system a "system". In addition to A, C, D, E, N and M roads, there are such inventions like D7N, DN7, D2000bis, etc.

The bis tends to be a spur, sometimes referred to by a super-scriped suffix "B" instead. But then, there are groups of spurs and associated routes which have a suffix, in some places being quite numerous.

[Owain]

The bis tends to be a spur, sometimes referred to by a super-scriped suffix "B" instead. But then, there are groups of spurs and associated routes which have a suffix, in some places being quite numerous.

I've never studied Latin, but I think it means "twice". In Italian, it is used in conversation to mean "seconds" (as in a second helping when eating), or "extra". It is used extensively on the Italian road network, either for a spur*, or the onward extension of a route**.

*The SS1bis branches off the SS1 Via Aurelia, to connect it to the SS2 Via Cassia.

**The SS129bis represents an effective extension of the SS129 to the west of Macomer.

[exiled]

The bis tends to be a spur, sometimes referred to by a super-scriped suffix "B" instead. But then, there are groups of spurs and associated routes which have a suffix, in some places being quite numerous.

I've never studied Latin, but I think it means "twice". In Italian, it is used in conversation to mean "seconds" (as in a second helping when eating), or "extra". It is used extensively on the Italian road network, either for a spur*, or the onward extension of a route**.

*The SS1bis branches off the SS1 Via Aurelia, to connect it to the SS2 Via Cassia.

**The SS129bis represents an effective extension of the SS129 to the west of Macomer.

Bis is the French for 'encore' or 'repeat' as well as the 'twice' meaning it has in Italian. 'Bis' is how the 'Bison Futé' network is signed.

[Chris Bertram]

Bis is the French for 'encore' or 'repeat' as well as the 'twice' meaning it has in Italian. 'Bis' is how the 'Bison Futé' network is signed.

Exactly. Though we call out the French word "encore" at concerts, the French never would. Mind you, they never say "Ooh la la" either. They say "Oh, là là", meaning, "Oh, there there".

[Arcuarius]

Wouldn't be passively safe, you know...

Sorry, I wasn't meaning the concrete element, but the Pre-Warboys Signs to their Panneaux Michelin...

I was being facetious; I apologise

[Chris5156]

Remaining D roads to have four digits, with the first two representing the department the route is located in. All D roads in the map begin with 62 as they are in the Pas-De-Calais region.

So each department (occupying an area the size of a county and possibly several major towns and cities) could now only have 99 D-roads? Doesn't sound workable to me.

[Peter350]

Remaining D roads to have four digits, with the first two representing the department the route is located in. All D roads in the map begin with 62 as they are in the Pas-De-Calais region.

So each department (occupying an area the size of a county and possibly several major towns and cities) could now only have 99 D-roads? Doesn't sound workable to me.

I’d get around that by introducing 5-digit D roads