Moving to Spain

[James]

Note: this is bit more of a personal post about moving to Spain, rather than a 'normal' subject topic but always happy to answer any questions

Myself and my other half had decided to up sticks and move, and after about 18 months of prep finally sold the house and managed to leave

A few weeks ago we loaded up our Sprinter van and over 4 days drove from Nottingham to Gibraltar (not actually in Gib but not far away!). Main reason for doing it this way was because we also have a dog, which makes it more much complex as preferred to skip France entirely and get the ferry to Bilbao.

Had stop-offs in Folkestone, Bordeaux and Salamanca

Apart from the fun of having never driven across much of France before, it was a great trip, and difference in road quality when crossing from France to Spain.

Most of the way though Spain was the Via de la Plata (Silver route), which is an ancient Roman route similar to the A1 or A46 back in the UK.

So far we've managed to buy a car and nearly got an apartment sorted in the next week or so

Few things I've learnt so far:
Bureaucracy in Spain is terrible and a lot of simple things in the UK are much harder here

Roads in Spain generally are worse, however in this region seem to be pretty much terrible

The standard of driving is a lot worse, and the less said about Spanish roundabout etiquette the better

Despite the speed limit changing constantly it’s generally ignored

Spanish investment into the road network is usually very good and there is generally a high quality road available for most routes and usually a choice of route with parallel motorways in quite a few places which is rare in the UK


That said I'm still interested and following UK roads closely as ever so don't expect to leave here any time soon Looking forward to exploring the continent even more and maybe popping over to Ceuta so I can say I've driven in Africa as well!

[Berk]

Lucky you. Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters), I’m just not in any financial position to do so.

But it would be nice one day to have a home in somewhere like southern Spain or the Canaries to retreat to for at least 3 or 4 months.

I would feel comfortable enough living somewhere like that, but would just need to brush up on my Spanish. I can understand it, but cannot speak it.

[FosseWay]

Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters)

1. Not all of Abroad doesn't have hideous winters.

2. Parts of Abroad that have warm winters generally have roasting summers. There was a time last summer when it was forecast that somewhere in Portugal would hit 50C.

3. You call that a hideous winter?

More seriously, James - best of luck, from someone who's been there and done that, though in a place with hideous winters.

[FleetlinePhil]

Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters)

2. Parts of Abroad that have warm winters generally have roasting summers. There was a time last summer when it was forecast that somewhere in Portugal would hit 50C.

If the climate change predictions prove true, this will only get worse. It could be the southern parts of the Iberian peninsula will become almost uninhabitable by the time you are looking to retire, and be desert by the next century.

Plus the beer is (mostly) lousy !

[FosseWay]

The beer is mostly lousy in all of southern Europe. On the other hand they have plenty of good wine.

[c2R]

Just a point about ferries to Spain, Brittany have quite good facilities for dogs - Pont Aven has many kennels and a large exterior dog exercise area, while the Connemara has dog friendly cabins and a smaller exterior dog exercise area...

[Mark Hewitt]

Lucky you. Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters), I’m just not in any financial position to do so.

People don't tend to move far away from where they grow up largely because of family. You have your parents close by, you meet someone and they have their parents close by, their friends and support networks. Few want to leave all of that behind to start a new life somewhere entirely new. No matter how tempting it would seem.

[James]

The beer is mostly lousy in all of southern Europe. On the other hand they have plenty of good wine.

Yes, as somebody that enjoys real ale its pretty much barren. Only good thing is Morrisons in Gib does stock a full UK range, so I can get what I'm used to. It is so disappointing after enjoying counties like Belgium where I got a schooling in beers, the selection was amazing

Will have to start up the homebrew again!

Many thanks for your other kind comments

[James]

Just a point about ferries to Spain, Brittany have quite good facilities for dogs - Pont Aven has many kennels and a large exterior dog exercise area, while the Connemara has dog friendly cabins and a smaller exterior dog exercise area...

Our cocker is getting very old now and in her last months, and we dont like leaving her alone too much, and not in kennels. It was the least difficult way of doing it, although I'd much rather have got a ferry to Spain.

In the future I will probably use the ferry to Spain. Found the French motorways (while great quality with excellent rest areas) very boring!

[FosseWay]

Lucky you. Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters), I’m just not in any financial position to do so.

People don't tend to move far away from where they grow up largely because of family. You have your parents close by, you meet someone and they have their parents close by, their friends and support networks. Few want to leave all of that behind to start a new life somewhere entirely new. No matter how tempting it would seem.

That is all very true, but it's never been easier to move abroad from that perspective than it is now. (I mean from the personal point of view, rather than the political or bureaucratic, which changes from time to time.) My relatives who left Scotland during the Clearances went to Canada and the US in the full knowledge that they would never see their homeland, relatives or friends again, and quite possibly would never even communicate with them again (many of those that left and those that stayed behind were illiterate).

Even for relatively well-off people in the first half of the 20th century it was a completely different ball-game to now. My mum was born in South Africa because her dad had a teaching job there for about 10 years (which helpfully happened to cover the duration of the Second World War). Obviously the war made it even more difficult than usual, but even with a reasonable amount of money at their disposal, they neither visited the UK nor had close family visits from the UK during that time. Communication consisted of letters and, in urgent cases telegrams (I have the telegram sent "back home" reporting the safe delivery of my mum and her twin sister). When they returned from SA in 1948 the voyage took several weeks. Even if they could afford the fare, no-one in a standard job would be able to take enough leave at once to make such a journey and have time at the destination to travel around visiting people.

We on the other hand have air fares that - while quite possibly too expensive to indulge in very often - are affordable for many more people, and a full range of more or less instantaneous communication methods.

But what you say is nevertheless still very true, since relatively few people do actually up sticks and move elsewhere.

[c2R]

Just a point about ferries to Spain, Brittany have quite good facilities for dogs - Pont Aven has many kennels and a large exterior dog exercise area, while the Connemara has dog friendly cabins and a smaller exterior dog exercise area...

Our cocker is getting very old now and in her last months, and we dont like leaving her alone too much, and not in kennels. It was the least difficult way of doing it, although I'd much rather have got a ferry to Spain.

In the future I will probably use the ferry to Spain. Found the French motorways (while great quality with excellent rest areas) very boring!

Yeah, I know what you mean - I love driving down through France, to stop at all sorts of places but also very much enjoy the ferry - our dog is also getting on a bit and the pet friendly cabins on some of the boats like the Connemara are are definitely nicer for her than kennels like on Pont Aven. However, our dog pretty much has to lump it - being back and foreward between Ireland and England all the time she has to come with us and therefore kennels on Irish Sea routes are a necessity.

[Owain]

Lucky you. Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters), I’m just not in any financial position to do so.

People don't tend to move far away from where they grow up largely because of family. You have your parents close by, you meet someone and they have their parents close by, their friends and support networks. Few want to leave all of that behind to start a new life somewhere entirely new. No matter how tempting it would seem.

That is all very true, but it's never been easier to move abroad from that perspective than it is now. (I mean from the personal point of view, rather than the political or bureaucratic, which changes from time to time.) My relatives who left Scotland during the Clearances went to Canada and the US in the full knowledge that they would never see their homeland, relatives or friends again, and quite possibly would never even communicate with them again (many of those that left and those that stayed behind were illiterate).

Even for relatively well-off people in the first half of the 20th century it was a completely different ball-game to now. My mum was born in South Africa because her dad had a teaching job there for about 10 years (which helpfully happened to cover the duration of the Second World War). Obviously the war made it even more difficult than usual, but even with a reasonable amount of money at their disposal, they neither visited the UK nor had close family visits from the UK during that time. Communication consisted of letters and, in urgent cases telegrams (I have the telegram sent "back home" reporting the safe delivery of my mum and her twin sister). When they returned from SA in 1948 the voyage took several weeks. Even if they could afford the fare, no-one in a standard job would be able to take enough leave at once to make such a journey and have time at the destination to travel around visiting people.

We on the other hand have air fares that - while quite possibly too expensive to indulge in very often - are affordable for many more people, and a full range of more or less instantaneous communication methods.

But what you say is nevertheless still very true, since relatively few people do actually up sticks and move elsewhere.

I think education and occupation make a massive difference here!

In the UK we have a strong tradition of 'going away' to university, rather than going to the local institution. While some graduates do move back to the area they came from after graduating, I'd imagine that far more of them either stay in the city where they studied, or get sucked into one of the big cities where most of the jobs seem to be (London is like a black hole, or as Stuart Maconie put it, 'the hole in the corner of a pool table which has one leg shorter than all the others'). These people are unlikely to settle into a long-term relationship with somebody from the area they came from, because most relationships they had before going to university end while they are there; any partner they might meet at university is likely to have come from a completely different part of the country again (or another country entirely). Family and relatives turn out to be almost irrelevant, considering that graduates who go into professional jobs tend to wait longer before having children, and then rely on childcare rather than relatives to look after their offspring while they are working.

By contrast, people who don't go to university are much more likely to stay in the same area for most or all of their lives.

[Euan]

Whilst I’ve been very temped to think about moving abroad (especially with our hideous winters)

1. Not all of Abroad doesn't have hideous winters.

2. Parts of Abroad that have warm winters generally have roasting summers. There was a time last summer when it was forecast that somewhere in Portugal would hit 50C.

3. You call that a hideous winter?

More seriously, James - best of luck, from someone who's been there and done that, though in a place with hideous winters.

It's also true that people have very wide-ranging preferences with weather. For instance you would struggle in southern Spain/Portugal if you don't like it too hot in summer and you want at least some snow experience in the winter, or Iceland if you don't like it cool/cold and cloudy throughout the year. Of course weather and climate is not the only factor to consider when moving abroad - you will want to familiarise yourself with the transport provisions locally and nationally (and in some cases, internationally) as well.

[Euan]

In the future I will probably use the ferry to Spain. Found the French motorways (while great quality with excellent rest areas) very boring!

That is understandable. I will confess that I once went to all the bother on Google Street View of clicking my way to Spain all the way from Scotland. In France there wasn't really that much to see until you caught a glimpse of the Pyrenees on the Spanish border. In Spain the landscape and the motorways themselves looked far more interesting than in most of France.

[Mark Hewitt]

It's also true that people have very wide-ranging preferences with weather. For instance you would struggle in southern Spain/Portugal if you don't like it too hot in summer and you want at least some snow experience in the winter, or Iceland if you don't like it cool/cold and cloudy throughout the year. Of course weather and climate is not the only factor to consider when moving abroad - you will want to familiarise yourself with the transport provisions locally and nationally (and in some cases, internationally) as well.

I certainly don't like it too hot ("I like it warm but not this warm!"), but I don't know that if I moved to the likes of Spain if, after a while, I would get used to it, or at least be able to cope with it better.

Tambien, creo que. Si vas a pais extranjero debes aprender el idioma.

[FleetlinePhil]

The beer is mostly lousy in all of southern Europe. On the other hand they have plenty of good wine.

Yes, as somebody that enjoys real ale its pretty much barren. Only good thing is Morrisons in Gib does stock a full UK range, so I can get what I'm used to. It is so disappointing after enjoying counties like Belgium where I got a schooling in beers, the selection was amazing

Will have to start up the homebrew again!

Many thanks for your other kind comments

Beer apart, I envy you the birdwatching opportunities in that part of the world in Spring. Even if it is not a particular interest of yours, I am sure there should be enough migrating raptors to create a spectacle anyone can appreciate.

[Vierwielen]

... snip ...

Even for relatively well-off people in the first half of the 20th century it was a completely different ball-game to now. My mum was born in South Africa because her dad had a teaching job there for about 10 years (which helpfully happened to cover the duration of the Second World War). Obviously the war made it even more difficult than usual, but even with a reasonable amount of money at their disposal, they neither visited the UK nor had close family visits from the UK during that time. Communication consisted of letters and, in urgent cases telegrams (I have the telegram sent "back home" reporting the safe delivery of my mum and her twin sister). When they returned from SA in 1948 the voyage took several weeks. Even if they could afford the fare, no-one in a standard job would be able to take enough leave at once to make such a journey and have time at the destination to travel around visiting people.

... snip ...

I went out to South Africa as a babe in arms in 1948. One of the conditions that my mother gave my father for going out was that she should be able to see her family once every five years. In 1953, my broitehr, sister and I accompanied her back and spent a few months in Dorsert while my father had to work to earn enough to pay for the return trip. I remember seeing the coronation on the telly. I was not to see another television program until mid-1972 when I did my own touring under my own steam. I was also not to cross an international border again until early 1972 when I went to Lesotho with some friends for a weekend.

When I was working in South Africa, I had 24 days leave each year and could save 6 days a year for up to 5 years when I had to take them or commute them for cash. Thsi provision was a hang-over from the days of sea travel when it took two weeks to sail from Cape Town to Southampton and two weeks for the return trip. Without this provision, the company would not have attracted anywhere as many immigrants. During the 1970's, Harry Oppenheimer, the MD of the company was questioned about allowing staff to take what amounted to a three month paid sabatical every five years and he replied that nobody in the company was indispensible and if teh company could not cover for somebody who had given adequate notice that they palnned to be away for three months, how would they cope if somebody was indisposed for three months following a heart attack.

[Berk]

It's also true that people have very wide-ranging preferences with weather. For instance you would struggle in southern Spain/Portugal if you don't like it too hot in summer and you want at least some snow experience in the winter, or Iceland if you don't like it cool/cold and cloudy throughout the year. Of course weather and climate is not the only factor to consider when moving abroad - you will want to familiarise yourself with the transport provisions locally and nationally (and in some cases, internationally) as well.

I certainly don't like it too hot ("I like it warm but not this warm!"), but I don't know that if I moved to the likes of Spain if, after a while, I would get used to it, or at least be able to cope with it better.

Tambien, creo que. Si vas a pais extranjero debes aprender el idioma.

Both very true. I know I can cope with the Spanish weather - although I can’t say I’ve been anywhere when it’s mega-hot (40+). But I’m comfortable enough when it’s been almost there. I don’t wear sunglasses as a rule, and I enjoy sitting outside, or having meals in the sun. And wearing summer clothing, and building a gentle tan.

I can definitely say I never want to see snow again for the rest of my life. I associate snow with freezing temperatures, bitter winds, intense greyness, dark skies and lack of daylight and the need to keep the heating on for much of the day. I find all of those very hard to tolerate (it makes me feel mentally unwell).

Learning the language too, is important. I feel ‘almost there’ with Spanish. The lack of fluency is mainly due to not having studied it seriously (I never chose it as a language option at school or university, so only had relatively few lessons). I probably grasp it a lot better than most due to the strong similarities with Italian.

[FosseWay]

Learning the language too, is important. I feel ‘almost there’ with Spanish. The lack of fluency is mainly due to not having studied it seriously (I never chose it as a language option at school or university, so only had relatively few lessons). I probably grasp it a lot better than most due to the strong similarities with Italian.

It comes much more quickly if you're actually there and both need to learn and use it and are surrounded by it, even if (like me) you don't live with a native speaker.

[Fenlander]

I can definitely say I never want to see snow again for the rest of my life. I associate snow with freezing temperatures, bitter winds, intense greyness, dark skies and lack of daylight and the need to keep the heating on for much of the day. I find all of those very hard to tolerate (it makes me feel mentally unwell).

I used to ski in France st the end of the ski season (late April) where the temps can easily get into the 20s on a good day. It was quite common to see people whip off their salopettes & jacket to reveal a pair of shorts & t-shirt underneath and sit there sunbathing on a deck chair for an hour or 2. Go skiing in the heart of winter however and as well as the cold you’ve got the really short hours of daylight too which can totally change the feel of the holiday.

Pick the right part of Spain and you can ski in the mountain in the morning and swim on the beach in the afternoon.