Schiphol road tunnel- Amsterdam

[Glenn A]

Impressive and a wide D4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etdAlGN2uRY

[Nwallace]

I find the canal tunnel more interesting, particularly when you're driving under a container ship!
Did it twice in one trip, unfortunately even at the low motorway speeds of the Netherlands I failed to get my camera in time.

[Bryn666]

Similar to the A1 in France at Charles de Gaulle. Likewise the N7 at Orly.

If Heathrow Runway 3 gets built the M25 will have to do similar.

[ScottB5411]

Similar to the A1 in France at Charles de Gaulle.

I remember being super impressed the first time I drove the section of A1 through CDG, even more so on the way back from Paris with a 747 crossing the Autoroute.

I do find other countries have far superior airport access than the UK, with most major airports being completely freeflow access to/from the nearest highway with set down/pick up heavily patrolled by airport Police, no matter the country and fines issued swiftly for loiterers. I think this was where Manchester has got it wrong as it wasn't patrolling the terminal areas heavily with traffic patrols/officers on foot and issuing fines to those loitering and waiting (not that I ever saw). Washington Dulles takes great delight in fining Taxi drivers who try and avoid using the Taxi ramp (therefore avoiding a fee) and pickup curbside, a cop once told me they make more money from this than anything else traffic wise. They also terminate the fare if a passenger has got in the taxi too

[koppie]

As a local, I've to notice, it's a D4M, with two D2M next to it for local traffic. The D4M is for through-traffic. Is there a shorthand for this? D2M-4M or something like that?

[jackal]

As a local, I've to notice, it's a D4M, with two D2M next to it for local traffic. The D4M is for through-traffic. Is there a shorthand for this? D2M-4M or something like that?

I don't think we have any consistent shorthand for multiple carriageways (but then we have fewer C/D lanes in the UK than there are in the Netherlands). I would probably say D4+D2.

[Vierwielen]

Similar to the A1 in France at Charles de Gaulle.

I remember being super impressed the first time I drove the section of A1 through CDG, even more so on the way back from Paris with a 747 crossing the Autoroute.

I do find other countries have far superior airport access than the UK, with most major airports being completely freeflow access to/from the nearest highway with set down/pick up heavily patrolled by airport Police, no matter the country and fines issued swiftly for loiterers. I think this was where Manchester has got it wrong as it wasn't patrolling the terminal areas heavily with traffic patrols/officers on foot and issuing fines to those loitering and waiting (not that I ever saw). Washington Dulles takes great delight in fining Taxi drivers who try and avoid using the Taxi ramp (therefore avoiding a fee) and pickup curbside, a cop once told me they make more money from this than anything else traffic wise. They also terminate the fare if a passenger has got in the taxi too

I read in today's Sunday Times that Heathrow was planning a "Congestion charge" for all private drop-off and pick-ups at Heathrow.

That reminds me - I need to write to my MP and ask him whether or not he is fighting for a rail link between Heathrow and the Southwestern line (for example Woking). My own experience from living in NE Hants is that getting to and from London City using public transport is less stressful than getting to and from Heathrow.

[Al__S]

As a local, I've to notice, it's a D4M, with two D2M next to it for local traffic. The D4M is for through-traffic. Is there a shorthand for this? D2M-4M or something like that?

Looking at it, it seems to be in total a D4M flanked by a D2M with a D1 local access (this seems to have been D2, but converted to D1 due to being a bit narrow?), a wide (maybe not by Dutch standards, but compared to anywhere else*) cycle tunnel and an S2 for the busway?

Then there's the four track railway as well


*hello Heathrow

[danfw194]

I'd like to see greater use of C/D lanes in Britain. Not saying it'd definitely work to relieve congestion (I haven't a clue about whether they're proven effective or not), but I've always liked the theory behind them. The western M25 seems like a perfect candidate for it, regardless of whether Heathrow gets expanded or not. I really don't like D6M at all. I think if any stretch of road is deemed necessary to have more than 4 lanes per carriageway, it should be C/D.

[Bryn666]

I'd like to see greater use of C/D lanes in Britain. Not saying it'd definitely work to relieve congestion (I haven't a clue about whether they're proven effective or not), but I've always liked the theory behind them. The western M25 seems like a perfect candidate for it, regardless of whether Heathrow gets expanded or not. I really don't like D6M at all. I think if any stretch of road is deemed necessary to have more than 4 lanes per carriageway, it should be C/D.

Highways England agree with you and any carriageway wider than four lanes is a departure from standard as a result - the only reason the M25 is like that is due to local opposition to C/D lanes when it was widened. Doing it within existing boundaries ensured it was ready in time for T5 opening.

[jackal]

I'd like to see greater use of C/D lanes in Britain. Not saying it'd definitely work to relieve congestion (I haven't a clue about whether they're proven effective or not), but I've always liked the theory behind them. The western M25 seems like a perfect candidate for it, regardless of whether Heathrow gets expanded or not. I really don't like D6M at all. I think if any stretch of road is deemed necessary to have more than 4 lanes per carriageway, it should be C/D.

It seems the M25 will finally be getting C/D lanes at J14-15, as well as southbound between J29 and the LTC. Likewise the A2 between the M2 and the LTC (both directions).

[A303Chris]

Similar to the A1 in France at Charles de Gaulle.

I remember being super impressed the first time I drove the section of A1 through CDG, even more so on the way back from Paris with a 747 crossing the Autoroute.

Last year an A380 Airbus landed from the west just as I was going in southbound, seeing the tyre smoke of the plane directly above me was very impressive

[Peter Freeman]

I'd like to see greater use of C/D lanes in Britain. Not saying it'd definitely work to relieve congestion (I haven't a clue about whether they're proven effective or not)

Proved long ago - they're not new. They can relieve congestion when used appropriately. Sometimes the benefit is achieved not by totally eliminating congestion, but by confining it safely to lower-speed lanes.

The western M25 seems like a perfect candidate for it

Yes: closely-spaced junctions and much through-traffic that has no interest in them.

I really don't like D6M at all. I think if any stretch of road is deemed necessary to have more than 4 lanes per carriageway, it should be C/D

Why do you think this? This is where the fallacies begin. Two D3s don't have a higher capacity than one D6. In fact it's less, unless traffic density on each D3 is identical, which is unlikely to ever happen. Splitting a congested motorway into multiple carriageways, when the problem is simply an over-capacity mainline, will produce no benefit. Instead, add lanes or provide an alternative route.

What CD lanes do is insulate the through-flow from disturbance and local flow-breakdown caused by merge/diverge activities, especially where on-ramps and off-ramps are too close together. A classic case in the USA is (or was) at clover-leaf junctions.

Braided ramps are an even more effective way of ameliorating merge/diverge problems. Combinations of braiding, CDs and express lanes are the ultimate expression of the theory - if you have lots of space and money.

[Vierwielen]

I'd like to see greater use of C/D lanes in Britain. Not saying it'd definitely work to relieve congestion (I haven't a clue about whether they're proven effective or not), but I've always liked the theory behind them. The western M25 seems like a perfect candidate for it, regardless of whether Heathrow gets expanded or not. I really don't like D6M at all. I think if any stretch of road is deemed necessary to have more than 4 lanes per carriageway, it should be C/D.

The A14 through Bologna is a good example of the use of what, in Britian, we would call C/D lanes. Similalry, junctions 8,9 and 10 of the Grande Raccordo Anulare (Rome's 68 km ring road) are on a pair of C/D lanes. I used part of these C/D roads daily for a six month period in 2002.

[WHBM]

Highways England agree with you and any carriageway wider than four lanes is a departure from standard as a result - the only reason the M25 is like that is due to local opposition to C/D lanes when it was widened.

First job was working in the design team on the M8 in Glasgow west of the Kingston Bridge, which I think was the first Quad carriageway in Britain, and the reason was flow modelling had shown a requirement for 6 lanes, and the MOT standard then was no carriageway wider than 5 lanes, so things must have changed. At this time the M2 along Belfast Shore had been designed, at least, as 5 lanes in one carriageway, and our adjacent Kingston Bridge itself was 5 lanes as well.

It always seemed an expensive solution for just one extra lane, with considerable braided junctions at each end as a result, but at current traffic levels it suits Glasgow well.

Is there a shorthand for this? D2M-4M or something like that?

I've always said Q3M. Q4+2M if they are different.

[Micro The Maniac]

That reminds me - I need to write to my MP and ask him whether or not he is fighting for a rail link between Heathrow and the Southwestern line (for example Woking). My own experience from living in NE Hants is that getting to and from London City using public transport is less stressful than getting to and from Heathrow.

I've been looking at alternatives to driving to LHT/T5 for my increasingly regular trips... most of which depart at stupid-o'clock in the morning.

It isn't helped by the first Woking RailAir not getting to T5 until 06:30 - which would require me to rely on the very first train to Woking actually running (which from experience is 50:50 at best). I guess the car-park at Woking is a bit cheaper than LHR...

[Vierwielen]

That reminds me - I need to write to my MP and ask him whether or not he is fighting for a rail link between Heathrow and the Southwestern line (for example Woking). My own experience from living in NE Hants is that getting to and from London City using public transport is less stressful than getting to and from Heathrow.

I've been looking at alternatives to driving to LHT/T5 for my increasingly regular trips... most of which depart at stupid-o'clock in the morning.

It isn't helped by the first Woking RailAir not getting to T5 until 06:30 - which would require me to rely on the very first train to Woking actually running (which from experience is 50:50 at best). I guess the car-park at Woking is a bit cheaper than LHR...

In the first half of 2012 I commuted to Germany on a fortnightly basis on an IT contract. My wife was barred from driving for medical reasons and I had to pay for travel [indirectly] out of my own pocket (OK, it was a tax-deductable expense via my limited company). I often ended up taking the last flight on a Sunday rather than losing a good deal of Monday morning (or using the prohibitivly expensive flights from London City).