Strecke 46 - Abandoned Autobahn

[Big Nick]

There is a long-lost unfinished autobahn in the south of Germany. I want to visit it!
https://www.malaymail.com/news/life/201 ... st/1809886

This was started in 1937, paused in 1939, and never restarted. They even turned an unfinished bridge support into a climbing wall! You can just about see it on Google Maps by following the darker line of conifer trees through the deciduous forest between Bad Bruckenau and Gemunden am Main.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0754692 ... 704!8i4352

https://www.strecke46.de/sprachen/english.html
It's nearly all in German - https://www.strecke46.de/index.html

[c2R]

There's unbuilt and unfinished bits all over Germany - some of my favourites:

Neuer Hellweg at Castrop Rauxel
- https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5335459 ... a=!3m1!1e3
End of the Emscher Schnellweg
- https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5603103 ... a=!3m1!1e3
More unfinished business
- https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5179922 ... a=!3m1!1e3
- https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4637178 ... a=!3m1!1e3

It's worth looking all around the area, as there's all sorts of junctions road layouts and the occasional bridge in a field not connected to anything!

[Viator]

Virtual overflight of Strecke 46: https://youtu.be/51VdmmMPgzU.
Map: https://www.strecke46.de/bilder/streckenverlauf.jpg.

[bothar]

I am surprised they do not put a green cycleway on it.

[Bryn666]

Remember many of the autobahns followed sub-optimal routes as Hitler envisioned them as tourist parkways like in America that people could enjoy as part as Strength Through Joy. The idea of them being commuter routes was not on the cards. Even as military routes they were undesirable; the railways were for that.

The Germans should not be ashamed of the fact that bad people created good infrastructure. That's the "Hitler Liked Dogs, So Dogs Are Evil" fallacy. This could easily be a tourist attraction detailing how the current German motorway network evolved.

[RichardA626]

Remember many of the autobahns followed sub-optimal routes as Hitler envisioned them as tourist parkways like in America that people could enjoy as part as Strength Through Joy. The idea of them being commuter routes was not on the cards. Even as military routes they were undesirable; the railways were for that.

The Germans should not be ashamed of the fact that bad people created good infrastructure. That's the "Hitler Liked Dogs, So Dogs Are Evil" fallacy. This could easily be a tourist attraction detailing how the current German motorway network evolved.

Same with Napoleon building the Rues Nationals, though at least they linked France's largest towns & cities.

[roadtester]

This is a great subject which I keep on meaning to do some research on.

I spent much of my childhood in Germany in the sixties and seventies so I can still remember older autobahns in something like the state in which they were originally built. Widening, upgrades and reroutings now mean it’s quite difficult get a feel for how they used to be - almost entirely D2M, very tight junctions and sharply curved cobbled slip roads (not very swing axle/tail-heavy Beetle friendly, especially in the wet) concrete surfaces with expansion joints that provided a constant bump, bump noise from the suspension, and early concrete crash barriers (nothing like modern ones - much lower). And in those days absolute iron lane discipline.

On the particular subject of abandoned or incomplete autobahn building, I used to do a lot of country walks with my dad and one of our routes took us through a wooded area where there were what looked like autobahn or at least road bridges that appeared to have been constructed for a road that never came. I’ve been meaning for years to look into this to try to identify what they were but I’ve never got around to it.

[Chris Bertram]

This is a great subject which I keep on meaning to do some research on.

I spent much of my childhood in Germany in the sixties and seventies so I can still remember older autobahns in something like the state in which they were originally built. Widening, upgrades and reroutings now mean it’s quite difficult get a feel for how they used to be - almost entirely D2M, very tight junctions and sharply curved cobbled slip roads (not very swing axle/tail-heavy Beetle friendly, especially in the wet) concrete surfaces with expansion joints that provided a constant bump, bump noise from the suspension, and early concrete crash barriers (nothing like modern ones - much lower). And in those days absolute iron lane discipline.

On the particular subject of abandoned or incomplete autobahn building, I used to do a lot of country walks with my dad and one of our routes took us through a wooded area where there were what looked like autobahn or at least road bridges that appeared to have been constructed for a road that never came. I’ve been meaning for years to look into this to try to identify what they were but I’ve never got around to it.

Let's not forget that some Autobahns were severed by the IGB, as the number of road crossing points between the FRG and GDR was pretty limited. A72 was one of these, it crosses from Bavaria to Saxony and a middle section was closed during the German period of division, whereas A9 (Berlin-Munich) was one of the official transit corridors and remained open.

[roadtester]

This is a great subject which I keep on meaning to do some research on.

I spent much of my childhood in Germany in the sixties and seventies so I can still remember older autobahns in something like the state in which they were originally built. Widening, upgrades and reroutings now mean it’s quite difficult get a feel for how they used to be - almost entirely D2M, very tight junctions and sharply curved cobbled slip roads (not very swing axle/tail-heavy Beetle friendly, especially in the wet) concrete surfaces with expansion joints that provided a constant bump, bump noise from the suspension, and early concrete crash barriers (nothing like modern ones - much lower). And in those days absolute iron lane discipline.

On the particular subject of abandoned or incomplete autobahn building, I used to do a lot of country walks with my dad and one of our routes took us through a wooded area where there were what looked like autobahn or at least road bridges that appeared to have been constructed for a road that never came. I’ve been meaning for years to look into this to try to identify what they were but I’ve never got around to it.

Let's not forget that some Autobahns were severed by the IGB, as the number of road crossing points between the FRG and GDR was pretty limited. A72 was one of these, it crosses from Bavaria to Saxony and a middle section was closed during the German period of division, whereas A9 (Berlin-Munich) was one of the official transit corridors and remained open.

Ah yes - that’s certainly true, although I should have said the area I was talking about was well back from the inner-German border near Hamm (famous for its enormous railway marshalling yards). I can’t now remember where exactly in relation to the town in terms of distance/direction from the centre.

Talking about the internal border, the GDR autobahns kept much of the old look/feel for far longer than their western counterparts.

[Owain]

What I don't understand is why all the descriptions of this route suggest the A7, which was built roughly along the route described. So why was the original abandoned route not revived when the later one was built with a similar itinerary but on a completely different alignment?

[roadtester]

What I don't understand is why all the descriptions of this route suggest the A7, which was built roughly along the route described. So why was the original abandoned route not revived when the later one was built with a similar itinerary but on a completely different alignment?

Bryn’s point about sub-optimal routing above may be relevant?

[Owain]

What I don't understand is why all the descriptions of this route suggest the A7, which was built roughly along the route described. So why was the original abandoned route not revived when the later one was built with a similar itinerary but on a completely different alignment?

Bryn’s point about sub-optimal routing above may be relevant?

It might, but surely if you have the groundworks for a full autobahn already prepared, wouldn't it be better to return to the site that had already had work done on it than to start completely from scratch elsewhere?

[roadtester]

I've just done a bit of googling in German, and found this site here which is specifically about these abandoned "Autobahn relics", with lots of photos.

http://verkehrsrelikte.de/

In particular: http://verkehrsrelikte.uue.org/wege/exrab.htm

http://verkehrsrelikte.uue.org/wege/abv.htm

It now seems that the uncompleted derelict itms I used to see on my walks with my dad back in the seventies must be "Strecke 77" depicted here.

Strecke means a section (literally stretch, as in English) of road.

These numbers appear to bear no relation to the current system of German autobahn numbering, which only dates back to the seventies anyway.

[Owain]

It now seems that the uncompleted derelict itms I used to see on my walks with my dad back in the seventies must be "Strecke 77" depicted here.

Strecke means a section (literally stretch, as in English) of road.

These numbers appear to bear no relation to the current system of German autobahn numbering, which only dates back to the seventies anyway.

I was going to ask about that too! "A7" sounds far more important than "Strecke 46", and therefore more suitable for a route that runs the entire length of the nation.

Did they have no numbers prior to the 1970s, or was there a different system in place?

I figured that the Polish A4 is so numbered because the western part of it was built as the German A4, when that part of the country was in Germany. I'd assumed that the Poles had retained the existing number, and applied it to the entire route of the motorway completed decades later. Maybe it's just a coincidence?

I've long wanted to drive all of the A7; so far, all I've done is the relatively short stretch to the south of the A3 interchange (although I did it in style ... 110mph indicated most of the way!).

[roadtester]

Did they have no numbers prior to the 1970s, or was there a different system in place?

Need to look into it in more detail to check but I think from memory, the autobahns originally were called "Autobahn X:Y" where X and Y were the cities where they started and finished, rather than numbered. Later, they numbered but the original numbers were put back into the pot and remixed when the system was revamped in 1975.

I think that's the broad outline of what happened, anyway.

[Owain]

All this is making me want to go to Germany!

[roadtester]

All this is making me want to go to Germany!

Not only do they have autobahns - they have bratwurst as well.

[Owain]

All this is making me want to go to Germany!

Not only do they have autobahns - they have bratwurst as well.

As far as I'm aware, it isn't legally possible to do 100mph on a bratwurst!

[roadtester]

All this is making me want to go to Germany!

Not only do they have autobahns - they have bratwurst as well.

As far as I'm aware, it isn't legally possible to do 100mph on a bratwurst!

That's true.

Anyway, a bit more rooting around produced this. The pre-1975 numbers are in the left-hand column, and the post-1975 numbers are in the right-hand column:

http://www.autobahn-online.de/altenummerierung.html

As can be seen, the numbers changed almost completely.

I was living in Germany at the time (admittedly as a 12-13 year old) and I don't remember a fuss about this at the time.

So next time someone on SABRE says that a renumbering suggestion is impractical because of e.g. the number of signs that would have to be changed, tell them that Germany renumbered its whole motorway system!

[Owain]

Not only do they have autobahns - they have bratwurst as well.

As far as I'm aware, it isn't legally possible to do 100mph on a bratwurst!

That's true.

Anyway, a bit more rooting around produced this. The pre-1975 numbers are in the left-hand column, and the post-1975 numbers are in the right-hand column:

http://www.autobahn-online.de/altenummerierung.html

As can be seen, the numbers changed almost completely.

I was living in Germany at the time (admittedly as a 12-13 year old) and I don't remember a fuss about this at the time.

So next time someone on SABRE says that a renumbering suggestion is impractical because of e.g. the number of signs that would have to be changed, tell them that Germany renumbered its whole motorway system!

Cool! Thanks for posting.

Even though the numbers have changed completely, my theory about the Polish A4 gaining its number from the German one is not disproven by this older list!!