Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

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ravenbluemoon
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Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by ravenbluemoon »

Another thread got me thinking about this one, I encountered it again last month after seeing it before as a passenger and forgetting where it was.

The E6 is the main motorway artery down the West Coast, between Norway and the bridge to Denmark. It gets busy enough to require three lanes in places, particularly around Gothenburg. It seems that some sections were done on the cheap, as at this bridge, lane one diverges and passes around the "wrong" side of the bridge column!

E6 Mölndal, Västra Götaland County

It doesn't feel that unsafe, it's under a 100km/h (or was it 90?) limit at that point, and there's plenty of tiger tail on the approach. I've not seen this anywhere else for a lane in general use. It does seem to happen for bus lanes, like this version: rv158 Säröleden

Barring the weird setup on the M80 at Castle Cary viaduct, I can't think of any examples in the UK. I reckon there would be a fair few elsewhere abroad.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by WHBM »

ravenbluemoon wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 23:52 Barring the weird setup on the M80 at Castle Cary viaduct, I can't think of any examples in the UK. I reckon there would be a fair few elsewhere abroad.
Almost walking distance from my front door, A13 at Canning Town, London

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5162772 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by c2R »

None of these are quite the same, but the similar idea here in Chelmsford https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7343441 ... 384!8i8192


and here in East London

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5157828 ... 384!8i8192

and this always feels a bit odd:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6606955 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by Bryn666 »

ravenbluemoon wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 23:52 Another thread got me thinking about this one, I encountered it again last month after seeing it before as a passenger and forgetting where it was.

The E6 is the main motorway artery down the West Coast, between Norway and the bridge to Denmark. It gets busy enough to require three lanes in places, particularly around Gothenburg. It seems that some sections were done on the cheap, as at this bridge, lane one diverges and passes around the "wrong" side of the bridge column!

E6 Mölndal, Västra Götaland County

It doesn't feel that unsafe, it's under a 100km/h (or was it 90?) limit at that point, and there's plenty of tiger tail on the approach. I've not seen this anywhere else for a lane in general use. It does seem to happen for bus lanes, like this version: rv158 Säröleden

Barring the weird setup on the M80 at Castle Cary viaduct, I can't think of any examples in the UK. I reckon there would be a fair few elsewhere abroad.
The M80 example is very weird as it was originally considered for a proper running lane but is now a hard shoulder.

Meanwhile in France when the A1 was widened this happened: https://goo.gl/maps/CjegjYqvC4b2LSUL8 also a candidate for worst colour scheme on a truss bridge anywhere.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16
The M80 example is very weird as it was originally considered for a proper running lane but is now a hard shoulder.
From the days when motorway widening was done properly, there are several bridges on the western M25 which have the hard shoulder put round the back of the bridge pier. Apparently the emergency services insisted on this at the design stage to maintain access during blockages. All swept away of course by the brilliance of ALR :(

Well known threading of the railway bridge at Denham :

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5825994 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by FosseWay »

Ah yes, the concrete pillar in the middle of the motorway... I think I've mentioned this on here before, generally when people in the UK complain about road design on the UK network :D
ravenbluemoon wrote:It doesn't feel that unsafe, it's under a 100km/h (or was it 90?) limit at that point, and there's plenty of tiger tail on the approach.
It's 80 IIRC, but absolutely no-one obeys the limit anywhere through there unless weight of traffic makes going faster impossible. The next exit is also a little way further on after the division, making it less likely that people will panic to get into the nearside lane after not paying attention to the signs. Any last-minute lane changing will occur after the end of the tiger-tailing.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by WHBM »

I've written here before about how regularly the divider on the A13 at Canning Town is struck and the bollard is broken off. You see some extraordinary last-second lane changes right in the face of it, which is not at all necessary as both just join back together at the end. Both from the seeming unfamiliar who don't know what to do, and the seemingly very familiar, determined to take the choice that offers a 5 second advantage over the other. I see the westbound is broken off again in the most recent Google view. I wonder how often RMS, the DBFO maintainer here, manage to recover the expense.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by jackal »

WHBM wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:07
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16
The M80 example is very weird as it was originally considered for a proper running lane but is now a hard shoulder.
From the days when motorway widening was done properly, there are several bridges on the western M25 which have the hard shoulder put round the back of the bridge pier. Apparently the emergency services insisted on this at the design stage to maintain access during blockages. All swept away of course by the brilliance of ALR :(

Well known threading of the railway bridge at Denham :

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5825994 ... 384!8i8192
Also on the M60: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.40087 ... 384!8i8192 As this part of the motorway is very congested I've wondered if it would be possible to get outercarriageways or extended slips through there. Probably could be done with some heavy-ish works to replace the retaining walls, but not worth it for an old and decrepit bridge like this.

Predictably the M80 needs widening already. The least bad option is extending the east-facing slips from J6 through the outer arches. So you'd have D3M from the M876 to Castle Cary, where there's a lane drop/gain for J6, the mainline is D2M through the arches and J6, then there's a lane gain/drop on the other side of the junction at Cumbernauld to get back to D3M.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 15:53
WHBM wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:07
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16
The M80 example is very weird as it was originally considered for a proper running lane but is now a hard shoulder.
From the days when motorway widening was done properly, there are several bridges on the western M25 which have the hard shoulder put round the back of the bridge pier. Apparently the emergency services insisted on this at the design stage to maintain access during blockages. All swept away of course by the brilliance of ALR :(

Well known threading of the railway bridge at Denham :

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5825994 ... 384!8i8192
Also on the M60: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.40087 ... 384!8i8192 As this part of the motorway is very congested I've wondered if it would be possible to get outercarriageways or extended slips through there. Probably could be done with some heavy-ish works to replace the retaining walls, but not worth it for an old and decrepit bridge like this.

Predictably the M80 needs widening already. The least bad option is extending the east-facing slips from J6 through the outer arches. So you'd have D3M from the M876 to Castle Cary, where there's a lane drop/gain for J6, the mainline is D2M through the arches and J6, then there's a lane gain/drop on the other side of the junction at Cumbernauld to get back to D3M.
The Scottish Government rightly progressed the M80 as a 'safety scheme', but completely failed to acknowledge that the chronic shortage of capacity is what drove most of the safety problems on the old A80... I do not consider untangling substandard weaving lengths and improving merges/diverges as capacity schemes - they are predominantly safety work where capacity is a side effect.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by ravenbluemoon »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16 Meanwhile in France when the A1 was widened this happened: https://goo.gl/maps/CjegjYqvC4b2LSUL8 also a candidate for worst colour scheme on a truss bridge anywhere.
That's fairly similar to the way Clifton Bridge in Nottingham was widened: https://goo.gl/maps/CWyD9JCDuiWD6kZB9
The colour scheme on that truss looks like the highway authority had a load of half empty paint cans to use up, and just chucked a few randoms into the back of the van...
FosseWay wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:29 Ah yes, the concrete pillar in the middle of the motorway... I think I've mentioned this on here before, generally when people in the UK complain about road design on the UK network :D
ravenbluemoon wrote:It doesn't feel that unsafe, it's under a 100km/h (or was it 90?) limit at that point, and there's plenty of tiger tail on the approach.
It's 80 IIRC, but absolutely no-one obeys the limit anywhere through there unless weight of traffic makes going faster impossible. The next exit is also a little way further on after the division, making it less likely that people will panic to get into the nearside lane after not paying attention to the signs. Any last-minute lane changing will occur after the end of the tiger-tailing.
That's probably why I couldn't remember the speed limit there then! 80 is painfully slow at that point, outside of peak time. There was plenty of advance signage saying that the right lane was going to do a swerve, so it didn't feel dangerous. I feel that the H&S paranoia hasn't reached there yet. Further south, a long term contraflow for some bridge works had those little flappy divider posts at 20+m intervals, whereas UK practice would have seen those big metal barriers separating the two flows.

EDIT: Not the same contraflow, but this is the sort of thing I'm on about. Very minimal! https://goo.gl/maps/G6Ht23vsup1GxhCx6
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by FosseWay »

ravenbluemoon wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 16:34 I feel that the H&S paranoia hasn't reached there yet. Further south, a long term contraflow for some bridge works had those little flappy divider posts at 20+m intervals, whereas UK practice would have seen those big metal barriers separating the two flows.
There's not pandering to H&S paranoia, and then there's "let's just let everyone - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and road maintenance crews - wallow together in the same mud pit like a big happy family of hippos", which IME is the normal Swedish approach to roadworks! But I guess it evens out in the end - the surface through some sections is so utterly appalling that no-one will drive/cycle at more than 10 km/h to avoid bottoming out or falling off, so it matters less that it can be very easy to end up on the wrong side of the "barrier" (read: randomly placed cones) intended to separate traffic and workers.
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by jackal »

ravenbluemoon wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 16:34
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16 Meanwhile in France when the A1 was widened this happened: https://goo.gl/maps/CjegjYqvC4b2LSUL8 also a candidate for worst colour scheme on a truss bridge anywhere.
That's fairly similar to the way Clifton Bridge in Nottingham was widened: https://goo.gl/maps/CWyD9JCDuiWD6kZB9
I see the parallel but the split northbound carriageways on Clifton Bridge are actually functional. They remove weaving for Ring Road traffic via a C/D layout, whereas the A13 and French A1 examples do not reduce weaving - they're just cheap and nasty.

The proposed Tees Crossing improvement is even better as it includes what is effectively braiding westbound: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/west ... ls/EP1.pdf
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 00:18
ravenbluemoon wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 16:34
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16 Meanwhile in France when the A1 was widened this happened: https://goo.gl/maps/CjegjYqvC4b2LSUL8 also a candidate for worst colour scheme on a truss bridge anywhere.
That's fairly similar to the way Clifton Bridge in Nottingham was widened: https://goo.gl/maps/CWyD9JCDuiWD6kZB9
I see the parallel but the split northbound carriageways on Clifton Bridge are actually functional. They remove weaving for Ring Road traffic via a C/D layout, whereas the A13 and French A1 examples do not reduce weaving - they're just cheap and nasty.

The proposed Tees Crossing improvement is even better as it includes what is effectively braiding westbound: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/west ... ls/EP1.pdf
And a right hand exit! Are NH softening up on their DMRB wonkery and working to practical reality now?
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

Post by jackal »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 09:49 And a right hand exit! Are NH softening up on their DMRB wonkery and working to practical reality now?
It's been developed by Tees Valley CA so far - we'll see if it survives the handover to NH...
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Re: Swedish E6 - Weird Motorway Widening

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