Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
- Was92now625
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
From memory, late 70s I think. They were ground-level roundabouts/circles before. Up until that time, it was single-carriageway west of that point.
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Bullionfield/Swallow to Camperdown junction was mid-1980s judging by my Geographia "Travellers Britain" dated 1984/85Was92now625 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 19:55From memory, late 70s I think. They were ground-level roundabouts/circles before. Up until that time, it was single-carriageway west of that point.
Unfortuantely my Landrangers and 1 inch maps are all in a box under stuff and it's a bit much effort to dig out.
One map I do have is the 1:25k sheets that were published either side of the inner ring road opening!
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
The Central Reserves of the bits build as dual carriageway were for the tramways to run but that never happened, and later ended up with Power Lines running up them.
There is some cracking pictures of trams crossing the kingsway at the Strathmartine Road circle, and as it typical I can't find it!
Looking at the NLS mapping (after spotting something interesting on SABRE Maps)
1961 7th Series: Kingsway runs from Bullionfield with what appears to be an at grade junction at Camperdown, to the McAlpine road Circle.
Greedykes was not the A92 route at the time so is only a yellow and so is not shown as dualed, but the 10inch map of a similar time shows it as dualed
What the 10inch map also shows is:
No circle at Forfar Road; no Circle at Old Glaims Road, former tram route through the Strathmartine circle, McAlpine Road (actually Kings Cross) circle was very oval!
And what I spotted on SABRE Maps link to NLS:
The 1947 Forfar sheet shows the Kingsway from Bullionfield to Kings Cross: https://maps.nls.uk/view/91527143
The 1927 Dundee and St Andrews Sheet, does not: https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400681
Flipping between the two you can see how Dundee developed following Mr Thompon's death including the development of Craigiebarns.
I had initially thought it had caught the flip between developments, similar to my two copies of the glen coe sheets from the 1920s one with the telford road and one with the new road, because I forgot that the 1940s maps are recorded as published in the 1920s.
The best pre-Kingsway map i've found is the 1912 Bartholomews. THe 1923 MOT map and the 1921 Quarter Inch are also both pre-kingsway
In the 1940s air mosaics you can see the single carriagewaway but also note that there appears to be land reserved for dualing
https://maps.nls.uk/view/75220125
You can also see the east end developments in this picture
https://maps.nls.uk/view/75220804
And some of Thompsons maps are there too
https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707710
https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707713
https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707716
https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707719
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Photo taken approximately from here.There is some cracking pictures of trams crossing the kingsway at the Strathmartine Road circle, and as it typical I can't find it!
We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs.
The human paradox that is common sense
The Backfire Effect
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aPHAo ... sp=sharing
Western part is dual carriageway whereas the eastern part (ie east of current A90) is single carriageway.
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Looks maybe not too far from plausible, except at the eastern end.MrEnder666 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 17:03 Dundee (outer) bypass:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aPHAo ... sp=sharing
Western part is dual carriageway whereas the eastern part (ie east of current A90) is single carriageway.
Given the A92 is non trunk I suspect it might get missed off entirely though I personally think that's a mistake and any bypass should continue to Monifieth.
However if it is built I think its very unlikely that the A92 link would be grade separated while the A90 junction at Calverhouse is at grade.
Ideally you'd want a grade separated link from new bypass to A90 northbound but assuming we don't get that I think any eastward A92 extension of the bypass would also be expected to share the resulting roundabout.
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
- novaecosse
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
It is crazily low, but it’s set by Dundee City Council, who have a track record of reducing speed limits on their main arterial routes. Transportation have got it into their heads that you can’t have a signalised pedestrian crossing on a road with a limit greater than 40mph.themadhatter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 14:49 I don't know how well people know the "new" dualled A92 from Dundee to Arbroath, but I'm amazed so much of it has a 40 mph limit. Sure there are roundabouts, but these have their own effect of reducing the speed. Forty seems crazily low.
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
"Thank you for the email and unfortunately the A92 is a trunk road and Dundee City Council is not the roads authority for this road. Transport Scotland and BEAR scotland are the organistaions that are responsible for this and this includes all signage and maintenance. I will pass your concerns onto them and let them know your thoughts."
Of course he never did reply, even when I prompted him.
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
That part of the A92 is a trunk road.themadhatter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 23:44 That's interesting, because I emailed Dundee City council about the A92 in Dundee city near Gallagher retail park, and the apparent no right turn (widely ignored) into East Whale Lane heading west.
It's not particularly detailed, but you can see approximately what roads are trunk on this map.
Of course, the SABRE wiki has a much better and more detailed explanation of which parts of the A92 are trunk and which parts aren't!.
We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs.
The human paradox that is common sense
The Backfire Effect
From the SABRE Wiki: A92 :
Originally Scotland's main east-coast route north of the Firth of Forth, linking Fife, Dundee, Angus, Kincardineshire, Aberdeen and Fraserburgh, the A92 has a complex history. It's undergone many route changes and suffered a significant truncation in the 1990s, leaving it as a route from Dunfermline - Dundee - Stonehaven. In 2018, it regained a part of its former northern section from Stonehaven to Blackdog following the opening of the AWPR. The A92 now continues from Stonehaven, runs
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
http://www.owenrudge.net/
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
http://www.owenrudge.net/
- novaecosse
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Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
Your better asking here.themadhatter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 23:44 That's interesting, because I emailed Dundee City council about the A92 in Dundee city near Gallagher retail park, and the apparent no right turn (widely ignored) into East Whale Lane heading west. I got the reply:
"Thank you for the email and unfortunately the A92 is a trunk road and Dundee City Council is not the roads authority for this road. Transport Scotland and BEAR scotland are the organistaions that are responsible for this and this includes all signage and maintenance. I will pass your concerns onto them and let them know your thoughts."
Of course he never did reply, even when I prompted him.
I’ve never heard either.
The new sign plate was erected by Dundee City Council when they remodelled East Whale Lane.
We altered the road marking to remove the right hand arrow, so it just shows straight ahead.
I’ve never seen a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order for it. I’ve certainly never drafted one for it, so suspect it’s incorporated into Dundee City Councils TRO for East Whale Lane.
“Enforcement of No Right Turn bans is a Policing matter”... that’s a pre-quote from my reply email if I get asked about it.
Re: Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?
I just looked at the junction on Google as it's not a movement I would ever be making or even thinking of making.novaecosse wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 20:26Your better asking here.
I’ve never heard either.
The new sign plate was erected by Dundee City Council when they remodelled East Whale Lane.
We altered the road marking to remove the right hand arrow, so it just shows straight ahead.
I’ve never seen a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order for it. I’ve certainly never drafted one for it, so suspect it’s incorporated into Dundee City Councils TRO for East Whale Lane.
“Enforcement of No Right Turn bans is a Policing matter”... that’s a pre-quote from my reply email if I get asked about it.
If you need evidence of vehicles turning right here the Google car snapped its photo at the perfect moment . https://goo.gl/maps/kZH73gGjSyR2
We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs.
The human paradox that is common sense
The Backfire Effect