Botched Traffic Signals

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Dave908
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Dave908 »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2015 00:41 Why not double up?
Sorry for digging up another traffic signal thread. :oops:

There is another instance of doubling up aspects here at J8 of the M62 for Skyline Drive.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

I've driven past this junction so many times yet only today I noticed these traffic lights have a straight filter arrow even though two of the three lanes here turn right. The light at the opposite side of the junction is plain green.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

A few that have struck me as interesting lately:

This black-on-green arrow at Haydock Island. I assume this is a last-minute attempted fix with some sort of tape as all the other heads are correctly masked.

And in a similar vein to the last post, these signals are all sorts of confused. It would be a bit less of a bodge if they just blanked off the Dia. 606 on the secondary head.

I'm not sure if this set have been mentioned before. Whilst not illegal, it was a no-no in previous TAL1/06 and in the new TSM - the two-lane right turn from St Nick's Place gets a green right arrow at the same time at the conflicting green left arrow for Tithebarn Street.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by astondb9 »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.80727 ... 6656?hl=en

The light to the left of this signal is a green bicycle light which comes on whenever the main traffic signal is on red supposedly to allow cyclists to turn left during the red light. The problem being that the cycle path also carries on straight ahead and there are no signs saying that if you try and make this movement during the red light you'd be taken out by traffic from the right. I'm sure it gets very little (if any) cyclist traffic but if they do they're in for a shock.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

astondb9 wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 16:59 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.80727 ... 6656?hl=en

The light to the left of this signal is a green bicycle light which comes on whenever the main traffic signal is on red supposedly to allow cyclists to turn left during the red light. The problem being that the cycle path also carries on straight ahead and there are no signs saying that if you try and make this movement during the red light you'd be taken out by traffic from the right. I'm sure it gets very little (if any) cyclist traffic but if they do they're in for a shock.
There's several sites like this around Leeds. The theory is that cyclists stop at the stop line in the cycle lane next to what looks like the nearside secondary signal, essentially operating like an advance cycle box. I suppose it's a second primary signal in that respect.

The opposite direction here has a sign explaining, also still retaining it's original GEC Mellors.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

Spotted one yesterday - although not in streetview as yet, here. The secondary head here is now on a central island, but it also now has an ahead arrow mask on the green aspect! Neither of the two primary heads do, they're both full circles.

This one in Liverpool has crossed my mind recently, mainly because the new signals have the same arrangement of 45 degree right arrows for the A580. Ignoring the left hand Elite in the GSV shot with the 90 degree right hand arrow (casual replacement), are 'proper' right turns (i.e. on to Netherfield Road) legal here? I'm not sure why these aren't just full roundels with perhaps NLT signs, as all of the carriageway markings suggest a right turn is allowed.

Similarly here, which used to be full-roundel greens, now has diagonal right arrows (though not at 45 degrees, admittedly). Is it therefore legal to continue straight on to Old Hall Street? It's the same heading outbound, is it legal to turn right here like the red car is doing?
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by UKboy »

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5631641 ... 312!8i6656 There's a useless gantry on this road. Why have they put this here, I don't think they really need it for a pedestrian crossing in a small village.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Chris Bertram »

UKboy wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:58 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5631641 ... 312!8i6656 There's a useless gantry on this road. Why have they put this here, I don't think they really need it for a pedestrian crossing in a small village.
Strictly, that's a mast-arm rather than a gantry. As a former local to that area (I lived in Easington, the other side of Loftus from there), I think it will be there to improve visibility of the signal for traffic coming up the (fairly steep) hill of Mill Bank. Also, A174 is quite a busy road, being the coast road from Redcar to Whitby.

Historically, A174 used to turn left here into Front Street, and then had a sharp right into Maynard Street before turning left again into Brotton Road, but a road improvement in the eighties provided the corner-cut that we have now, much to the relief of bus drivers among others.
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UKboy
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by UKboy »

Oh yea, because there is a hill and people might not know there could be a pedestrian crossing ahead, apart from the traffic light sign at the top of the hill, so it's for better view of the crossing.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

UKboy wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:58 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5631641 ... 312!8i6656 There's a useless gantry on this road. Why have they put this here, I don't think they really need it for a pedestrian crossing in a small village.
If you look at the approaches from both sides, the mast arm does improve the conspicuity of the crossing quite considerably, especially if there's traffic blocking the sight lines of the regular signals from motorists who are further down the hill.

This is the case more so when approaching from the South, but also to a degree from the North.

Admittedly, I'd imagine these days that high-level duplicate signals on the Eastern-most pole would be used given their prevalence over mast arms in recent times for multiple reasons.

Edit: It seems Chris beat me to it! :P
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by UKboy »

True, but that is all I wanted to know about this.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by UKboy »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.95515 ... 384!8i8192 The shade for the red pedestrian light here (on the A1 in Edinburgh) looks like it has melted.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D »

These always come across as botched to me. I think they should have no U turn as opposed to no right turn signs and the green arrows look kinda misleading.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XzCnx4UCk6eMxzmw5
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

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L.J.D wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:00 These always come across as botched to me. I think they should have no U turn as opposed to no right turn signs and the green arrows look kinda misleading.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XzCnx4UCk6eMxzmw5
You'd think a 45 degree arrow and NUT would be better placed in this situation, I agree.

Unrelated, but they seem quite fond of mast arms with sub hung signals (by that, I mean the signals 'hanging' below the mast) in Wakefield and the surrounding areas, don't they?
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by TRC666 »

I mentioned this a while ago on its own thread but it seems to have disappeared:

Outside Stratford's Westfield on Hitchcock Lane (closest I can get to it on GSV is here) there's a pelican crossing leading to Stratford International station that rests on all red.

It defaults to all red including farsides but when a vehicle approaches the vehicle signals clear to a very short flashing amber then green before returning to all red (red man remains throughout). When a pedestrian pushes the button it goes straight to a green man then flashing green man before returning to the red man but the vehicle signals remain red throughout the whole cycle unless a vehicle is waiting. Is this setup generally permitted as I've never seen a pelican operate like this elsewhere?
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

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https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.23258 ... 312!8i6656

Give way at traffic lights?
I'd guess most drivers go when the arm they connect to get the green light, but their stop line is beyond their junction to said road, so they are not controlled by any signals. Just "give way" and hope for the best I guess.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

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TRC666 wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 15:12 <snip>
It defaults to all red including farsides but when a vehicle approaches the vehicle signals clear to a very short flashing amber then green before returning to all red (red man remains throughout). When a pedestrian pushes the button it goes straight to a green man then flashing green man before returning to the red man but the vehicle signals remain red throughout the whole cycle unless a vehicle is waiting. Is this setup generally permitted as I've never seen a pelican operate like this elsewhere?
I assume it's on private property, so it doesn't matter much, but I wouldn't have said it's permitted, no, given that the flashing of the amber and green man isn't concurrent. A standard 'Pedex' set up would work just as well in this scenario, and would be permitted (I think), given it's just the same as a junction resting in red.

I've seen a few videos floating around of Level Crossings that do a similar thing, where you request the barriers to raise via a PBU, then after a few minutes, the Wig Wags go through the normal cycle, the barriers lower and the Wig Wags extinguish, leaving the barriers in the lowered position - very unusual indeed.
jervi wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 03:25 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.23258 ... 312!8i6656

Give way at traffic lights?
I'd guess most drivers go when the arm they connect to get the green light, but their stop line is beyond their junction to said road, so they are not controlled by any signals. Just "give way" and hope for the best I guess.
:shock: I suppose one could argue that in the absence of a stop line, a driver is to take the primary signal as the defacto stop line, however it's not strictly in the absence of a stop line. I imagine the primary issue here has been the ability to paint the stop line with the required distance from the crossing studs without 'fouling' the side-road entrance completely. I think I'd be inclined to suggest moving the uncontrolled crossing point to the other side of the side-road with an additional set of signals, and paint a stop line along the line of the current uncontrolled crossing point.

There's similar advanced stop lines here and here, that spring to mind, though albeit they both keep the original crossing points intact and have a fair bit of room.

Or throw a signal on the side road as well, keeping the uncontrolled crossing on the desire line :P Both options not as cheap as paint, mind you.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D »

traffic-light-man wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:42
L.J.D wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:00 These always come across as botched to me. I think they should have no U turn as opposed to no right turn signs and the green arrows look kinda misleading.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XzCnx4UCk6eMxzmw5
You'd think a 45 degree arrow and NUT would be better placed in this situation, I agree.

Unrelated, but they seem quite fond of mast arms with sub hung signals (by that, I mean the signals 'hanging' below the mast) in Wakefield and the surrounding areas, don't they?
Or in Bradford where they use wires in some locations which I've never seen anywhere else. Though I heard Leeds used to have one.

Like here

Also off topic but has anyone seen LED Mellor kicking about lately? Leeds has a set which will likely dissappear when they change Park Row to one way only. Sheffield had a few but they are long gone now due to the PFI.

Leeds ones
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

L.J.D wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 22:29Also off topic but has anyone seen LED Mellor kicking about lately? Leeds has a set which will likely dissappear when they change Park Row to one way only. Sheffield had a few but they are long gone now due to the PFI.

Leeds ones
Are those retro-fitted with FuturLED3 modules?

As for 'pedigree' LED Mellors, I think all the ones I knew of in Bradford and Manchester are long gone. I recently managed to revive and old hard drive, interestingly, I have close-up pictures of sites in Bradford, Manchester and Birmingham.

I think these are still here in Brimingham, but I'm not sure if I know of any others that are still around.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

Spotted this corker the other day. Not a Local Authority signal head, but it is on the public highway, along with it's 3 partners. At a distance, I'd assumed it was a Euro head with German inverted masks, but it appears these are genuine UK symbols placed on to the lenses.
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