Stop markings in France

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exiled
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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by exiled » Mon Aug 19, 2019 20:39

I seem to remember that Denmark like Luxembourg tended to have PaD on slip roads of motorways and expressways as a matter of course, as is still the case on the Boulevard Perepherique de Paris.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Chris Bertram » Tue Aug 20, 2019 09:29

exiled wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 20:39
I seem to remember that Denmark like Luxembourg tended to have PaD on slip roads of motorways and expressways as a matter of course, as is still the case on the Boulevard Perepherique de Paris.
The Périph is an exception to normal traffic law in so many ways. I had no problem driving on it, but SWMBO in the passenger seat was apprehensive, to say the least. You do need to be assertive when it's your time to change lane approaching your exit, but you will be allowed to do so. There's a lot of give and take going on. There was then a speed limit of 80 km/h (is it still?) but that seemed like an impossible dream. Perhaps it's possible overnight and weekends.
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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by exiled » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:20

Chris Bertram wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 09:29
exiled wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 20:39
I seem to remember that Denmark like Luxembourg tended to have PaD on slip roads of motorways and expressways as a matter of course, as is still the case on the Boulevard Perepherique de Paris.
The Périph is an exception to normal traffic law in so many ways. I had no problem driving on it, but SWMBO in the passenger seat was apprehensive, to say the least. You do need to be assertive when it's your time to change lane approaching your exit, but you will be allowed to do so. There's a lot of give and take going on. There was then a speed limit of 80 km/h (is it still?) but that seemed like an impossible dream. Perhaps it's possible overnight and weekends.
70 now. It also has the protected lane one that appears to be increasingly common on French and Benelux motorways where a solid line separates it from lane 2.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by FosseWay » Tue Aug 20, 2019 13:16

exiled wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:20
70 now. It also has the protected lane one that appears to be increasingly common on French and Benelux motorways where a solid line separates it from lane 2.
Not permanently I take it?

Dual carriageway roads in Sweden have solid lines in various contexts that aren't used in the UK (the nearest is the non-compliant use of them in tunnels, which has been bemoaned by the highways professionals on here before). The most obvious is on the mainline at onslips on motorways and similar, where there is a solid line between lanes 1 and 2 to discourage people from changing lanes at a point where the angle of attack of joining traffic is such that they cannot yet see what is coming up behind them on the mainline. The UK tends to get round this issue through better engineering, whereby the slip road is long enough for traffic on it to establish what is in L1 and how fast it's going before it runs out of road, and where lane drops/gains are less frequent. There is a heck of a lot of weaving on Swedish urban DCs/S2+1s compared to the UK, which explains to an extent the speed limits, which are also low by UK standards.

You also get solid lines between lanes going in the same direction at the immediate run-up to traffic lights. I presume this is to discourage people in L1 realising at the last minute that L2 is empty and that they may be able to get to their destination 0.00001 second faster if they suddenly pull out round the vehicle in front when they get green, without noticing the vehicle barrelling up behind them in L2. Or suddenly realising they are in the wrong lane for their destination with the same result.

Solid lines in general are taken more seriously here. Although they mean the same in both jurisdictions (do not cross them), in the UK they are interpreted by the man in the street as "do not overtake", which is subtly different. I'm not aware of anecdotal evidence of people being fined for clipping a solid line with 1 or 2 wheels on a bend in the UK, whereas this does happen, even in the snow where the line is not obvious, in Sweden.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by exiled » Tue Aug 20, 2019 15:25

I think the 70 km/h limit is now permanent. Though if you can get to 70 on the BP it is probably 0100 hours!

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by FosseWay » Tue Aug 20, 2019 15:33

I meant about the solid line. It must be a broken one away from junctions, I take it?

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by exiled » Tue Aug 20, 2019 16:29

I'll try and GSV later. I think they are permanent.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nwallace » Fri Aug 23, 2019 17:07

exiled wrote:France definitely likes roundabouts, I've noticed that where various town halls retain PaD it is increasingly signed as such.
Yes, during pbp I noted the various different ways the maire was telling you about Pad in their town.

I crossed a few circles on the way into brest that were definitley not signed, painted or prioritised as roundabouts!



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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nwallace » Fri Aug 23, 2019 17:11

One of the most amusing sights I saw was a town where the main road remained priority route.

Every driveway had a giveaway line and sign at the end of it!



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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by exiled » Fri Aug 23, 2019 18:34

Does not surprise me, I remember somewhere in either the NL or Belgium that had a priority diamond and 70 km/h limit after the same.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:27

FosseWay wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 15:33
I meant about the solid line. It must be a broken one away from junctions, I take it?
The BP is 70km/h throughout (mainly due to pollution reasons, although as you know even 50km/h is ambitious during the day on many sections of it) - the solid lines are indeed permissive on the lane closest to the exit so you can move left but not right.

The trick is;

* NEVER change lanes unless you have to, this annoys the locals - especially the mopeds that blast between cars at full pelt.
* Know your junction and how far off it you are. The next Porte is always signed at an exit diverge so you've got advance warning, sometimes as much as a luxurious 900m! :laugh: :laugh:

I love the BP. It's utterly mad.
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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nwallace » Wed Aug 28, 2019 21:29

My photos from PBP are now in my onedrive

I've not bothered weeding out the sabristic from the cycling though

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhutpzuF ... w?e=afahRV

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Norfolktolancashire » Tue Sep 10, 2019 22:08

Nwallace wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 21:29
My photos from PBP are now in my onedrive

I've not bothered weeding out the sabristic from the cycling though

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhutpzuF ... w?e=afahRV

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Good to see the N165 bridge from the cycle bridge, although the old bridge looked that knackered I'm surprised it took even the weight of one cyclist!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.38816 ... 384!8i8192

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nwallace » Fri Sep 13, 2019 16:15

Think it's the classic French deception, it may look knackered but it's structurally sound.

I noticed this with their roads too, I saw signs that I worked out meant "sorry about the poor state of the road" those roads were much better to ride on that any I've ridden in northern England or Scotland the last 10 years.

As opposed to the British where it may look good but it's just wallpaper.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nwallace » Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:08

This is an example of what I mean "Deformed Carriageway", really?!
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhukYzuFTDgp8JcUE4w

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by FosseWay » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:28

Nwallace wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:08
This is an example of what I mean "Deformed Carriageway", really?!
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhukYzuFTDgp8JcUE4w
It may be that its surface is fine in a micro sense while suffering from undulations at the macro level that you notice if doing 80 km/h in a car, even more so in a bus, but not on a bike at 20-30 km/h.

There are roads like that in the Fens and in Ireland, where the surface is OK because traffic density is relatively light, there are no subsurface utilities and therefore no bodged repairs, and the climate is such that freeze-thaw is less of a problem than in other places. But try to take them at anything like the posted speed limit and you will take off, or ground, or both because of subsidence.

The Germans, on the other hand, seem to reserve their version of the Chaussée déformée sign - Straßenschäden - for real humdingers. Some back roads in the former DDR are spectacular in their surface damage; I found one with a posted limit of 50 km/h that I was unhappy doing more than about 20 km/h on.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Fenlander » Fri Sep 27, 2019 09:42

FosseWay wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:28
Nwallace wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:08
This is an example of what I mean "Deformed Carriageway", really?!
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhukYzuFTDgp8JcUE4w
It may be that its surface is fine in a micro sense while suffering from undulations at the macro level that you notice if doing 80 km/h in a car, even more so in a bus, but not on a bike at 20-30 km/h.

There are roads like that in the Fens and in Ireland, where the surface is OK because traffic density is relatively light, there are no subsurface utilities and therefore no bodged repairs, and the climate is such that freeze-thaw is less of a problem than in other places. But try to take them at anything like the posted speed limit and you will take off, or ground, or both because of subsidence.

The Germans, on the other hand, seem to reserve their version of the Chaussée déformée sign - Straßenschäden - for real humdingers. Some back roads in the former DDR are spectacular in their surface damage; I found one with a posted limit of 50 km/h that I was unhappy doing more than about 20 km/h on.
Unlike that picture this bit of the A16 has a texture that whilst not being visibly obvious like the French example it has a peculiar effect on the transmitted road noise that creates a noise that is almost the same as you get when running on a deflating tyre. In very slow stop/start traffic when crawling along at low single digit speeds you can actually feel a very slight corrugation in the surface. The only thing I can think of that would have created it is if the roller used when it was resurfaced wasn't a pure circle but more of an egg shape and has left this regular pattern in the road.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nicholas » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:58

Nwallace wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 21:29
My photos from PBP are now in my onedrive

I've not bothered weeding out the sabristic from the cycling though

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhutpzuF ... w?e=afahRV
Some great photos there - looks like everybody goes all out for that event! And loving the Panneaux Michelin!
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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by Nwallace » Thu Oct 31, 2019 21:31

Nicholas wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:58
Nwallace wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 21:29
My photos from PBP are now in my onedrive

I've not bothered weeding out the sabristic from the cycling though

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlB7bV6RdTovhutpzuF ... w?e=afahRV
Some great photos there - looks like everybody goes all out for that event! And loving the Panneaux Michelin!
The ride itself is often described as a trip into the "France that doesn't exist anymore" or a "Nostalgia Trip"
The Americans are pretty big on style so many come over their classic styled merino jerseys on steel frames and leather/cord luggage; and that includes their Vedettes.
Others it's a mix of steel and carbon race and endurance bikes, there's even a Concourse which sees niché brands like Alex Singer competing for the best looking bike, and then someone rides it for up to 90hrs, though they're often given to sponsored Vedettes so closer to 50hrs.

It's utterly mental and I'm intending being back in 2023; I'm probably also going to ride London-Edinburgh-London in 2021 and have pre-registered for the Wild Atlantic Way in 2020; neither of which will likely see the the sort of style and range of machines on show in Ramboulliet.

My previous experiences of the French were mostly in Paris and Lille, Brittany and Normandy are considerably different!
They even tollerate you falling into their Tabac, accidentally asking for a Coke instead of a Coca and mangling their language in the process.

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Re: Stop markings in France

Post by DavidB » Tue Nov 19, 2019 18:40

https://www.thelocal.fr/20191119/yes-in ... -road-sign

A British journalist living in France gets four points and a €135 fine after being caught not stopping at a Stop sign.

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