M40 30th Birthday

[IAN]

Reminded of this by this site
http://www.365daysofmotoring.com/showon ... xO5XV76szk

The article states,

'It was originally planned that the section of the M42 between the M5 and the M40 (Junction 3A) would be renumbered as part of the M40, but this change did not take place'.

Is that true or just a bit of creative writing?

[ForestChav]

Reminded of this by this site
http://www.365daysofmotoring.com/showon ... xO5XV76szk

The article states,

'It was originally planned that the section of the M42 between the M5 and the M40 (Junction 3A) would be renumbered as part of the M40, but this change did not take place'.

Is that true or just a bit of creative writing?

Logically it would make more sense due to the TOTSO and also then it would give each arm of the Birmingham orbital a different number. But given that you'd then need to renumber the M42 junctions (which had already been done once) as well as no doubt a whole load of local signage would it have been worth doing to look nice?

[Alderpoint]

Yes, I suppose it is 30 years. Whow, how time flies !

My thought too!

We were living in Kenilworth at the time, but still managed to drive the section from Birmingham to Warwick in the December, before the section further south opened, and saw no other vehicles all and drove the full length with full beam headlights on.

At the time I was travelling to Poole for work every few weeks, and the opening of the M40 cut a good half an hour off the journey.

A couple of weeks after the M40 opened, there was a major multi-vehilce accident in fog just south of Banbury and the local rags typically reported "daft place to build a motorway, it's always foggy there."

[Bryn666]

Reminded of this by this site
http://www.365daysofmotoring.com/showon ... xO5XV76szk

The article states,

'It was originally planned that the section of the M42 between the M5 and the M40 (Junction 3A) would be renumbered as part of the M40, but this change did not take place'.

Is that true or just a bit of creative writing?

Truvelo has evidence it was planned, it should be on the Wiki I believe.

[trickstat]

Yes, I suppose it is 30 years. Whow, how time flies !

My thought too!

We were living in Kenilworth at the time, but still managed to drive the section from Birmingham to Warwick in the December, before the section further south opened, and saw no other vehicles all and drove the full length with full beam headlights on.

At the time I was travelling to Poole for work every few weeks, and the opening of the M40 cut a good half an hour off the journey.

A couple of weeks after the M40 opened, there was a major multi-vehilce accident in fog just south of Banbury and the local rags typically reported "daft place to build a motorway, it's always foggy there."

Because of course, fog never causes problems on roads that aren't motorways.

[Glenn A]

The M40 would have significantly cut journey times from the West Midlands to the South Coast as it replaced the mostly S2 A34 between Birmingham and Oxford, which was like a missing link. Also it provided an alternative route to London.

[M4 Cardiff]

As well as the well-known change in route to avoid Otmoor, looking at the locations of borehole records on the BGS site, it looks like other alternative routes were assessed quite late into the design process further north too, as well as a couple of other areas of extensive ground testing, that may have represented areas under consideration at the time as services areas.

So on the basis of the map, that I have done a crude overlay with, a more southerly route was assessed at Arncott, together with an online MSA or junction, a slightly more easterly route near Mollington / Warmington, where the split carriageway section is, an online MSA or junction at Avon Dassett, a more northerly route to the south of Leamington, using more of the Warwick Bypass, and a slightly more southerly route between Shrewley and Lapworth.

Does anyone have any documentation regarding these potential junctions or MSA's and any info on the potential junction layout that there could have been at Greys Mallory to the south of Leamington?

[Ruperts Trooper]

The M40 would have significantly cut journey times from the West Midlands to the South Coast as it replaced the mostly S2 A34 between Birmingham and Oxford, which was like a missing link. Also it provided an alternative route to London.

I regularly used the A423/A41/A452 from Oxford - Banbury - Warwick - North East Birmingham which always seemed a fast road - but I always travelled at off-peak times and my driving style then was very enthusiastic!

[Steven]

Reminded of this by this site
http://www.365daysofmotoring.com/showon ... xO5XV76szk

The article states,

'It was originally planned that the section of the M42 between the M5 and the M40 (Junction 3A) would be renumbered as part of the M40, but this change did not take place'.

Is that true or just a bit of creative writing?

Truvelo has evidence it was planned, it should be on the Wiki I believe.

It's actually creative writing, and "originally" is incorrect.

It was once suggested internally at the Ministry but the vast, vast majority of the documentation all states M42. Remember that the M42 is a descendant of the Droitwich - Leicester Motorway, which helps to explain the numbering.

[Bryn666]

The article states,

'It was originally planned that the section of the M42 between the M5 and the M40 (Junction 3A) would be renumbered as part of the M40, but this change did not take place'.

Is that true or just a bit of creative writing?

Truvelo has evidence it was planned, it should be on the Wiki I believe.

It's actually creative writing, and "originally" is incorrect.

It was once suggested internally at the Ministry but the vast, vast majority of the documentation all states M42. Remember that the M42 is a descendant of the Droitwich - Leicester Motorway, which helps to explain the numbering.

Yes, I should have clarified by "once planned" it falls into the same category as the "M7 going to South Wales" was once planned.

[Truvelo]

The suggested renumbering was from the days of Solihull-Strensham. I suspect it was considered as a way of tidying up the numbers of the motorways at J3A. Had the previously reserved numbers being used the M42 would TOTSO and the M40 and M50 would both terminate. Instead the suggestion was to have both the M40 and M50 cross each other with no TOTSO so it made sense. When Solihull-Strensham was cancelled it made these proposals redundant so that's probably why nothing more was heard about it. I think the only reasonable explanation for renumbering J3A to M5 as M40 these days is because the M40 has the mainline through J3A but the main movement is M42 to M42 so the right decision was made not to renumber.

There is of course concrete evidence that M40 to M5 was going to happen when the M42 north of J3A was first built with the present J4 opening as J1. Some may say it was just temporary until the section southwest was built and I known Steven is going to say otherwise but I don't buy that theory. Temporary termini elsewhere, such as M23 at Hooley and M11 Woodford, were opened with the junction numbers as though the sections further into London would be built. There is no suggestion to suggest M42 J4 would be any different.

The document with the suggested renumbering can be found here.

[Steven]

Temporary termini elsewhere, such as M23 at Hooley and M11 Woodford, were opened with the junction numbers as though the sections further into London would be built. There is no suggestion to suggest M42 J4 would be any different.

Counter-examples to yours exist on M74 (twice!!), M8, M18 and M62 (the original) though. There is evidence that the M23's junctions were renumbered to fit the pattern that currently exist prior to opening too.

Plus, of course, M4 J8/9...

[Truvelo]

As well as the well-known change in route to avoid Otmoor, looking at the locations of borehole records on the BGS site, it looks like other alternative routes were assessed quite late into the design process further north too, as well as a couple of other areas of extensive ground testing, that may have represented areas under consideration at the time as services areas.

So on the basis of the map, that I have done a crude overlay with, a more southerly route was assessed at Arncott, together with an online MSA or junction, a slightly more easterly route near Mollington / Warmington, where the split carriageway section is, an online MSA or junction at Avon Dassett, a more northerly route to the south of Leamington, using more of the Warwick Bypass, and a slightly more southerly route between Shrewley and Lapworth.

Does anyone have any documentation regarding these potential junctions or MSA's and any info on the potential junction layout that there could have been at Greys Mallory to the south of Leamington?

Yes, I have documents and maps showing most of the alternatives you have mentioned. Is there anything in particular that interests you? As far as the section south of Leamington is concerned I have already put stuff on the wiki here and here.

[M4 Cardiff]

As well as the well-known change in route to avoid Otmoor, looking at the locations of borehole records on the BGS site, it looks like other alternative routes were assessed quite late into the design process further north too, as well as a couple of other areas of extensive ground testing, that may have represented areas under consideration at the time as services areas.

So on the basis of the map, that I have done a crude overlay with, a more southerly route was assessed at Arncott, together with an online MSA or junction, a slightly more easterly route near Mollington / Warmington, where the split carriageway section is, an online MSA or junction at Avon Dassett, a more northerly route to the south of Leamington, using more of the Warwick Bypass, and a slightly more southerly route between Shrewley and Lapworth.

Does anyone have any documentation regarding these potential junctions or MSA's and any info on the potential junction layout that there could have been at Greys Mallory to the south of Leamington?

Yes, I have documents and maps showing most of the alternatives you have mentioned. Is there anything in particular that interests you? As far as the section south of Leamington is concerned I have already put stuff on the wiki here and here.

Brilliant, thank you Truvelo The two junctions you mention on the wiki certainly answer that question of mine. As to the other two locations I mentioned at Arncott and Avon Dassett, were these to be MSA's? and whet were the reasons for the final tweaks to the route?

[Truvelo]

Brilliant, thank you Truvelo The two junctions you mention on the wiki certainly answer that question of mine. As to the other two locations I mentioned at Arncott and Avon Dassett, were these to be MSA's? and whet were the reasons for the final tweaks to the route?

I'll come to Arncott later as there were several alterations made to the route around there before the final line was settled on. It also caused slight alterations to J9.

As for Avon Dassett there were alternative proposals for an online upgrade of the existing A41 but this was quickly rejected. However plans were drawn up which I have attached.

Later on during the early 80s there would have been another section where the central reservation widens like that to the north of Banbury. This would have been between Avon Dassett and Burton Dassett.

[Enceladus]

I well remember when the M40 was opened between Oxford and Birmingham. The media at the time were commenting on the road as a new link from the Midlands of the UK to the South-east/London and would take pressure off the increasingly overloaded M1.

I didn’t actually get to drive the M40 until Summer 2019, when my OH and I holidayed in England, basing ourselves in Oxford. We found the M40 a pleasant, fast drive - it seemed busy compared to our Irish motorways - but not as busy as the M1 or M6.

When the M40 was under construction in the very late 1980s, I watched a TV programme on BBC as a young teenager with my mother on how the new motorway would transform north Oxfordshire, and particularly the (then) relatively modest size rural market town of Banbury. IIRC there was some excellent aerial footage of the earthworks and the junctions taking shape.

I know that the first sections of the M40 linking London and Oxford were built in the late 1960s and early 1970s, culminating with the section to J8 opening in 1974. Was it always intended for the M40 to be extended to Birmingham?

[Truvelo]

Was it always intended for the M40 to be extended to Birmingham?

Yes, there are plans from the late 60s showing this.

[Steven]

I know that the first sections of the M40 linking London and Oxford were built in the late 1960s and early 1970s, culminating with the section to J8 opening in 1974. Was it always intended for the M40 to be extended to Birmingham?

It actually wasn't to junction 8 as we know it today, but to a temporary terminus almost in the same location where the M40 simply became A40 at grade right where the line of Chilworth Road crosses the westbound slip - indeed, mapping evidence from the time shows the junction was pretty much left "as was", except the northern part of Chilworth Road was cut off and joined to the remaining oxbow of London Road, where Holloway Farm is today. All evidence of this junction was swept away in the later northwards extension.

Also remember that the M40 spur at that location was originally A40, upgraded online..

The junction revelled in many strip maps of the time as the rather important sounding "TEMPORARY MOTORWAY TERMINAL" (yes, always in all caps).

[Truvelo]

And the original intention was for the M40 extension to continue from the GSJ to the west of the services. At the moment I only have small scale drawings for this junction which would have been rebuilt and allow limited access to the M40 north only from Oxford and not the A418. Chilworth Road would have been altered and headed towards Milton Common instead of the oxbow.

[Matthew]

The M40 really was long overdue and, compared to other motorways, it still feels new despite the wear and tear of 30 years.

Doesn't change the fact it's utterly tedious mile after mile of nothingness though until you get well past Oxford.

Agreed, although I've never been especially keen on the gradient between junction four and "The Canyon" (as it was labelled on the CCTV for many years), neither northbound or southbound.