Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

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Big L
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by Big L »

I'm assuming the ground on the other side of the valley is more stable. The point of this work is that the current road gets closed by landslips a number of times yearly, so it will look bad the if the new alignment has the same thing happen.
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by KeithW »

mehere wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 09:56 The tunnel options are described as more negative , and having more C02 emmisions .
Yet a fear years ago the English ( Then ' Highways Agency ) built the Devil's Punchbowl project ( can't recall the road number ), and extra Emissions in an area equally as scenic , further , the upcoming ' Stonehenge ' project does not view a Tunnel as something that has do many negative impacts .
Well the Hindhead tunnel on the A3 was relatively short at 1300 m and the geology was relatively straightforward being mostly sand and sandstone. The bores were dug by mechanical diggers and then lined with sprayed on concrete. The lesson of fires in alpine tunnels such as Mont Blanc mean that regulations are much tougher now than they were 20 years ago. So there are now cross overs on the approaches and escape routes between the bores every 100m or so.

The other thing with Hindhead is that much of the scenic section is now traffic free, has been heavily planted with trees and the wildlife in the SSI is now better protected. Given that much of the land was under the control of the National Trust and therefore can NOT be compulsorily purchased the NT pretty much held all the cars in the hand as it were.
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by Nwallace »

The Portavadie to Tarbert ferry could be described as a short cut, if combined with the Extortionate Western Ferries service, but then so could the Ardrossan to Campbelltown ferry.
The road to Portavadie isnt anywhere near same standard as the A83 either

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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by Nwallace »

I noted recently the mejia greeting about the cost of keeping the A83 safe to remain open.

I didn't get a response to my twitter response asking if they therefore wanted the road closed immediately pending the delivery of a replacement

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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by clc »

Recently published IIP Project Pipeline Update states that the cost estimate for the project is £268 million - £860 million with a planned construction start in September 2029:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/infra ... documents/
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by jnty »

Nwallace wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 00:49 I noted recently the mejia greeting about the cost of keeping the A83 safe to remain open.

I didn't get a response to my twitter response asking if they therefore wanted the road closed immediately pending the delivery of a replacement
I think the cost of keeping it open is pretty pertinent information both in the specific context and also to highlight the national challenges we're going to face keeping other infrastructure working safely during increasingly common extreme weather events.

News stories don't have to have an agenda, but if that one did I'd say it was to highlight that delays and economies made in securing an alternative, reliable route are not cost free and that an expensive looking replacement project may pay for itself more quickly than it would appear. The high ongoing costs are extremely relevant if construction on such a route is really not going to commence until 2029.

Would you prefer the narrative was that the A83 is actually really cheap to maintain and basically fine at the moment?
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by wrinkly »

Just noticed this item on the Transport Scotland website dated 23 Dec 2022.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/old ... d-for-a83/
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by KeithW »

wrinkly wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 18:32 Just noticed this item on the Transport Scotland website dated 23 Dec 2022.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/old ... d-for-a83/
Sounds like prudent decision, its just a pity some along those lines didn't happen a long time ago.
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by KeithW »

Nwallace wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 00:49 I noted recently the mejia greeting about the cost of keeping the A83 safe to remain open.

I didn't get a response to my twitter response asking if they therefore wanted the road closed immediately pending the delivery of a replacement

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Well work out the cost of replacing it with any other mode of transport or living with very long diversions in the interim and you will get the answer.
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by swissferry »

Update on improving the resilience of the Old Military Road diversion route: https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/a83 ... rovements/
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by orudge »

There are more details about the proposed Old Military Road intervention here with a PDF plan here.
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by jackal »

The exhibition link doesn't seem to be working. But there's some info in the BBC story:
An open-sided tunnel is the preferred solution to tackle landslip problems on the A83's Rest and Be Thankful, it has been announced.

Transport Scotland said the debris flow shelter had come out ahead of four other design options.

The shelter - with an estimated cost of between £405m and £470m - would protect vehicles from falling rocks and debris.

The Rest and Be Thankful near Arrochar has become infamous for closures caused by landslides from the hills above it.

Work on the proposed project would involve constructing a tunnel over a length of approximately 0.9 miles (1.4km).
From the image it looks like the A83 and its verges will be much wider.

Image


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... t-65781089
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by Barkstar »

I take it from this scheme that the integrity of the road isn't at risk, and that the whole lot won't do some sort of Mam Tor eventually?
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by Ross Spur »

Barkstar wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 09:14 I take it from this scheme that the integrity of the road isn't at risk, and that the whole lot won't do some sort of Mam Tor eventually?
They are sowing a forest... https://forestryandland.gov.scot/news-r ... g-underway
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

Ross Spur wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 09:40
Barkstar wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 09:14 I take it from this scheme that the integrity of the road isn't at risk, and that the whole lot won't do some sort of Mam Tor eventually?
They are sowing a forest... https://forestryandland.gov.scot/news-r ... g-underway
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by M4 Cardiff »

Barkstar wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 09:14 I take it from this scheme that the integrity of the road isn't at risk, and that the whole lot won't do some sort of Mam Tor eventually?
The difference is in the type of landslip between this location and Mam Tor.

Mam Tor landslip is a deep-seated slow moving slump, with the road built across its upper part. So as the slump creeps, the road kept cracking up and dropping.

The situation at RABT is that there are frequent falls of loose weathered material from source areas upgradient of the road, often associated with washouts in streams, and the mobilised material falls/flows onto the road. AFAIK there is no instability to the roadbed itself.
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Re: Project Corridor Options - Access to Argyll and Bute (A83)

Post by rileyrob »

I think that the only time that material has slumped from below the road in recent years has been associated with a much larger failing of the slope above the road. Essentially, as the material flowed over the road, it washed/ scoured out some of the material below the road too. This was one of the occasions when the old military road also became blocked, showing the scale of the landslide on that occasion.

As for the rock shelter, this is the solution that many of the 'ignorant locals' have been clamouring for, for who knows how long, and been told in the past that it was too expensive and wouldn't work...
It is quite possible that over the last 15 years more money has been spent on the mitigation, traffic management and other works than it would have cost to build the shelter at 2010 prices.
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