A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by roadphotos » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:33

Both the A661 and A58 at Wetherby are now shown as Non Primary (coloured red) on the Ordnance Survey Landranger (online maps).

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by stu531 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 13:08

That's interesting and yes you're right. I've a 2016 Landranger and it's still in green, so it's must've only changed recently. Bing Maps (OS) has them green so it must be very recent.

The Kestrel roundabout (A658) to Harrogate section is still primary, which you would imagine anyway, as it's the main route out of town.

On the same lines, comparing Bing Maps with Streetmap, the A58 from Wetherby all the way to Sheepscar is also now non-primary - see here. (Note the line of the Leeds Orbital route is on it too.)

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by Steven » Wed Jan 13, 2021 13:38

The May 2020 release of OS VectorMap District has them as primary; the November 2020 one has them as non-primary.
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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by skiddaw05 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:57

The local highway authority (Leeds?) would have the definitive records I'd have thought. I'm not sure if you would need a Foi request and what reason you could give for wanting this information

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by the cheesecake man » Thu Jan 14, 2021 14:17

Alternatively (according to my 2021 road atlas) perhaps the A58 has been downgraded but the A661 is still primary?
IMG_20210114_134459.jpg

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by NICK 647063 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 19:10

Both the A661 and A58 have been non primary since the A1(M) upgrade at Wetherby but sadly it’s a mess on both signage and mapping.....

Obviously the A661 from the Kestrel Roundabout into Harrogate is primary as it’s the signed route from the A1(M) and York into Harrogate using A658/A661, at Kestrel roundabout the signage to Wetherby has been non primary for as long as I can remember, at Wetherby it’s Non primary on the A168 for both A58 and A661 but then at the mini roundabout in Wetherby you have an old primary sign.

As for the A58 many old Primary signs, I did notice in Leeds at Sheepscar Junction Wetherby A58 is in a white patch on the over head gantries, A1(M) The North is next to it but once you get to the outer ring road A1(M) The North is signed down the A6120 and via the A64.

Mapping of both these routes is also confused, personally these both could be downgraded to B roads.

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by NICK 647063 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 19:15

Alternatively (according to my 2021 road atlas) perhaps the A58 has been downgraded but the A661 is still primary?
IMG_20210114_134459.jpg
A to Z has been confused over this for years, it even shows the A168 primary down to J45 and it’s not.

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by Alderpoint » Thu Jan 14, 2021 19:18

Presumably there is some decision somewhere to downgrade these roads? I've looked but can't find anything.

There is an identical situation here in Leamington/Warwick where the road between the towns is marked as Primary on most maps - even the most recent landranger - but there have not been any green signs on the road for many years.
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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by Stevie D » Thu Jan 14, 2021 20:26

NICK 647063 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 19:10
Both the A661 and A58 have been non primary since the A1(M) upgrade at Wetherby but sadly it’s a mess on both signage and mapping.....

Obviously the A661 from the Kestrel Roundabout into Harrogate is primary as it’s the signed route from the A1(M) and York into Harrogate using A658/A661, at Kestrel roundabout the signage to Wetherby has been non primary for as long as I can remember, at Wetherby it’s Non primary on the A168 for both A58 and A661 but then at the mini roundabout in Wetherby you have an old primary sign.
The signs at Kestrel on the A658 have shown A661 towards Wetherby as non-primary since at least 2008, according to GSV, while the sign on the A661 approaching the roundabout from Wetherby were still showing it as primary when GSV last went through in 2019 (and still no mention of the A1 being A1(M) either).

The signs in Spofforth are a mix of (a) non-primary (since at least 2008), (b) primary, and (c) pre-Worboys.

All the signs within Wetherby that I can see are primary, right up to and including the outbound sign for the A58/A168 roundabout (and again have not been updated to show the A1(M) upgrade), but all signs at that roundabout itself are non-primary, to the extent that the sign into the town centre doesn't even mention the A661 and Harrogate is signed via A1(M) and A59.

In short ... it's a mess.

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by stu531 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 22:15

It certainly is a mess. Right after the roundabout sign which discourages traffic away from Wetherby (and Harrogate is via the A1), you see these two.

Just to show things don't change much round here, Spofforth still has one of these as well.

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by roadphotos » Thu Jan 14, 2021 22:54

There are a number of roads that are shown incorrectly on the A-Z at Wetherby. An 'A Road' is shown at junction 46 of the A1(M) when it's actually the B1224, part of the A168 (south of Wetherby) is shown as a Primary Route which it never has been so I would guess that they've also got the A661 wrong. Through traffic is no longer signed via the A661 at Wetherby and the road has a weight limit to discourage heavy goods vehicles and as has been mentioned it's signed as Non Primary at both ends (A658 roundabout and the roundabout at Wetherby) so I would say that it's most definitely Non Primary.

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by stu531 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:48

roadphotos wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 22:54
An 'A Road' is shown at junction 46 of the A1(M) when it's actually the B1224, part of the A168 (south of Wetherby) is shown as a Primary Route which it never has been so I would guess that they've also got the A661 wrong.
Have a look at where this is. It's more weird signing in Wetherby - as if the A661 splits and travels through Wetherby itself, where it should be the B6164. If you follow the logic of this sign, it states that the A661 travels through North Street and up York Road to the A1 (the topmost sign has been pointed north when it originally pointed east).

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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by A303Chris » Fri Jan 15, 2021 13:51

wrinkly wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 22:56
Also the A58 is still shown as primary on OS maps.

It's a disgrace that there is no definitive map or list of primary routes.
It depends what scale. After looking at online OS maps, I'm a subscriber, 1:250,000 (Routemaster) has it primary, but 1:50,000 (landranger), now shows it non primary

However signage is a mess in the whole area, the A168 Local Access Road is non primary on all maps but is signed primary throughout this junction
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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by Steven » Fri Jan 15, 2021 14:44

A303Chris wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 13:51
After looking at online OS maps, I'm a subscriber, 1:250,000 (Routemaster) has it primary
Modern 1:250,000 mapping back to 2010 is available on SABRE Maps, as well as 1:250k and Landrangers on the Ordnance Survey Modern layer - you don't need to be a subscriber to OS to see either of them!
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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by A303Chris » Mon Jan 18, 2021 14:08

Steven wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 14:44
A303Chris wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 13:51
After looking at online OS maps, I'm a subscriber, 1:250,000 (Routemaster) has it primary
Modern 1:250,000 mapping back to 2010 is available on SABRE Maps, as well as 1:250k and Landrangers on the Ordnance Survey Modern layer - you don't need to be a subscriber to OS to see either of them!
Sorry forgot about that, i subscribed to the OS as, 1:25,000 is available and it is great for my walks / cycle rides
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Re: A661 at Wetherby (Primary or Non Primary)

Post by roadphotos » Wed Jun 16, 2021 00:31

Both the A661 and A58 at Wetherby are now shown as Non Primary Routes (coloured red) on all scales on the OS online maps so I'll take that as confirmation.

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