Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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lexynoise
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by lexynoise »

That can’t have been pleasant in the event of a collision!

I always assumed those ubiquitous hexagonal Petitjean columns on motorways were chosen for their ability to crumple when hit.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Gareth »

If I recall correctly, those columns were a bit too good at the "crumple" thing.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by scott125 »

lexynoise wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 04:11
scott125 wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 18:25 Scotlands a bit different to motorway lighting , there very few in the central reservation i can think of the Kingston Bridge and that bit of M74 thats now gone . Through Glasgow its on the really tall masts or on the sides .
Scotland really doesn’t like central reservation lighting for some reason. Throughout the 90s and 00s, most of it was removed and replaced with columns at both edges of the road.

This applies to motorways and in-town dual carriageways, even when it wasn’t really practical to do so. At the top end of the M77, there used to be Thorn Alpha 3s mounted on twin brackets in the central reservation. They couldn’t install columns on the southbound carriageway because of a concrete retaining wall, so now the lights on the northbound carriageway light the entire road.

There’s a few survivors like the Kingston Bridge and Clyde Expressway, but not much.

The tide seems to be turning though. Part of the Kingsway in Dundee is having carriageway edge lighting replaced with central reservation lighting.
I wonder if there is different standards in practice in Scotland. M8 at Ratho has lighting on the central reservation.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by AndyB »

Placing street lighting on verges definitely has advantages in maintenance, but I think the replacement of high mast lighting in Northern Ireland is primarily due to light pollution.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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AndyB wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 13:23 Placing street lighting on verges definitely has advantages in maintenance, but I think the replacement of high mast lighting in Northern Ireland is primarily due to light pollution.
speaking of light pollution, I'm a big fan of these that are used in the south at motorway junctions: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7289171 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by ManomayLR »

Sabrista wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2014 19:47 I used to love those old M1 lights. Once they finished and the tall tree lights of Scratchwood were passed, I always knew we were on our way (in those days to Nottingham). After that back then there were hardly any lights on the M1.

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Does anyone have any photos of these? Well before my time of course (now even the conventional HPS lights in their place have been switched off), but would be v. interesting to see. Or do you mean the catenary ones that got taken out?

Edit: unless you mean these.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by bothar »

Image
c2R wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 16:38
AndyB wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 13:23 Placing street lighting on verges definitely has advantages in maintenance, but I think the replacement of high mast lighting in Northern Ireland is primarily due to light pollution.
speaking of light pollution, I'm a big fan of these that are used in the south at motorway junctions: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7289171 ... 384!8i8192
But if you take the example on the left here, there are 8 bulbs of which 5 are lighting up cows in a field and only 3 make any contribution to the road.
Then you have these configurations in the Co. Dublin part of the M1 where they have turned off the lights at the end of the ramps, where conflicts could occur and have left on these big towers lighting the less important central part of the junction. If you travel to other countries they only light the points at which traffic merges, whereas in Fingal they have deliberately turned off the lighting there. This is irresponsible in my view, they could decommission the towers and install well focussed energy efficient LED lighting on the regular lamp standards and add a few new lamp standards where required.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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bothar wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 21:38But if you take the example on the left here, there are 8 bulbs of which 5 are lighting up cows in a field and only 3 make any contribution to the road.
Yikes. Those are complete overkill for a low-traffic rural diamond junction. Did someone have money to burn when the M1 was being built, or did they just own shares in a high mast lighting company?
Then you have these configurations in the Co. Dublin part of the M1 where they have turned off the lights at the end of the ramps, where conflicts could occur and have left on these big towers lighting the less important central part of the junction. If you travel to other countries they only light the points at which traffic merges, whereas in Fingal they have deliberately turned off the lighting there. This is irresponsible in my view, they could decommission the towers and install well focussed energy efficient LED lighting on the regular lamp standards and add a few new lamp standards where required.
Ordinary lamp standards with LED lamps would be a better fit for junctions like this one, though actually I'd argue that most of the M1's interchanges between Dublin Airport and the NI border would be fine without any lighting at all - it really isn't required.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Sabrista »

EpicChef wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 20:14 Edit: unless you mean these.
Those are the ones.

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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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Sabrista wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 23:34
EpicChef wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 20:14 Edit: unless you mean these.
Those are the ones.

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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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EpicChef wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 23:57Were they Mercury?
I think they were, yes.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by bothar »

Chris5156 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 23:34 Ordinary lamp standards with LED lamps would be a better fit for junctions like this one, though actually I'd argue that most of the M1's interchanges between Dublin Airport and the NI border would be fine without any lighting at all - it really isn't required.
There is no evidence that people's eyesight has improved since this road was built.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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bothar wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 01:24
Chris5156 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 23:34 Ordinary lamp standards with LED lamps would be a better fit for junctions like this one, though actually I'd argue that most of the M1's interchanges between Dublin Airport and the NI border would be fine without any lighting at all - it really isn't required.
There is no evidence that people's eyesight has improved since this road was built.
I'm not saying it has... I'm saying that, even without improved eyesight, you don't need to light a rural motorway junction. You can if you want, and there are probably safety benefits, but I don't believe the population of Ireland collectively have such bad eyesight that every single one has to be floodlit.

The UK has plenty of rural motorway junctions far busier than this, which have no lighting at all. Here's one that's so busy it's even been signalised, but no lighting in sight.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by ManomayLR »

The high mast lighting with 8 or 9 HPS lamps are more like floodlights than streetlights!

I do like High mast floodlights - were there ever high mast LPS?

I’m still an advocate for lighting a lot more Motorway than is currently the case - I think all ALR motorways without hard shoulders should have continuous lights.

High mast floodlights also seem like a good way to light motorway-motorway interchanges but normally standard streetlights are used instead!
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by OliverH »

I just found this site all to do with lanterns and thought it might have some on there.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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Gareth wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:13 If I recall correctly, those columns were a bit too good at the "crumple" thing.
It was a welding issue with the doors that caused fatigue cracks and column failure: https://goo.gl/maps/7TXQyAPtGYenCrVB7 these doors in particular.

The same issue also affected dozens of Cohen (derived from Stewart and Lloyd) columns and a mad scramble was undertaken to replace many of these: https://goo.gl/maps/gxRPjxVYYuDbG5Nm7
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by ManomayLR »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:20
Gareth wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:13 If I recall correctly, those columns were a bit too good at the "crumple" thing.
It was a welding issue with the doors that caused fatigue cracks and column failure: https://goo.gl/maps/7TXQyAPtGYenCrVB7 these doors in particular.

The same issue also affected dozens of Cohen (derived from Stewart and Lloyd) columns and a mad scramble was undertaken to replace many of these: https://goo.gl/maps/gxRPjxVYYuDbG5Nm7
So are these columns “passively safe”?
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Bryn666 »

EpicChef wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 17:01
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:20
Gareth wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:13 If I recall correctly, those columns were a bit too good at the "crumple" thing.
It was a welding issue with the doors that caused fatigue cracks and column failure: https://goo.gl/maps/7TXQyAPtGYenCrVB7 these doors in particular.

The same issue also affected dozens of Cohen (derived from Stewart and Lloyd) columns and a mad scramble was undertaken to replace many of these: https://goo.gl/maps/gxRPjxVYYuDbG5Nm7
So are these columns “passively safe”?
Very much not. They should be behind crash barriers on any road with a speed limit higher than 40.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by xnx »

I remember the M1 lights too with two sorts (on hard shoulder side) and the rest in the central res ones between staples and scratchwood.

My question is what were the bulbs used after scratchwood in the 80's? Those lights ran pre-m25 from there to Newport Pagnall in the early 80's and bulbs replaced in the 90's. Some of them did have the bowls that fell off.

Part were removed when the M25 came in. They also existed partially at Coventry on the M6 with part replacement by SOX, and the A38 north into Derby for the last 3 miles.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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xnx wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 03:32 I remember the M1 lights too with two sorts (on hard shoulder side) and the rest in the central res ones between staples and scratchwood.

My question is what were the bulbs used after scratchwood in the 80's? Those lights ran pre-m25 from there to Newport Pagnall in the early 80's and bulbs replaced in the 90's. Some of them did have the bowls that fell off.

Part were removed when the M25 came in. They also existed partially at Coventry on the M6 with part replacement by SOX, and the A38 north into Derby for the last 3 miles.
Thorn Alpha 6 lanterns. They were the go to before the MA60 was brought into wide use.
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