A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
No Tempsford bypass built here. The A1 has had the same line for a good 40+ years. In the 90s, the bridge with slip roads and the LAR were built.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Tempsford does have a tiny bypass - the A1 is realigned around the east side of the centre of the village, though it's very close to the buildings so it really just gets through traffic off a short section of the main street. On the One Inch layer on SABRE Maps you can see that it opened between 1959 and 1963. But it's such a small scale realignment that I agree it would be hard to call it a bypass!
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Well ISTR that that pre 1990's the Tempsford Road had a very dodgy flat junction on the A1. The adding of the LAR and sliproads meant that accessing the A1 and Tempsford from Everton became much less of a nerve racking affair. It must have been around then when the overbridge of the A1 at Edworth (the water tower) was built, that was another very scary junction to the point that I usually went on up to the roundabout at Biggleswade.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Now a D3M to Scarborough that really would be a case of overkill, even if the journey time would be far shorter.NICK 647063 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 18:34Google do this from time to time, a few years ago the A64 all became the A64(M) right through leeds to Scarborough they sorted it within 3 months!
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Is the idea that it would be online widening more than a SABRE hypothesis? I've always thought it more likely that it would follow the 1990s route.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
If so that would be a rather irrational response given that the existing road is a poor quality 1960's artefact with no hard shoulder and some appallingly dangerous junctions. It has one of the worst records of any major road in the country when it comes to safety.
Notorious high risk points
Services
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58768 ... 8192?hl=en
Skellow
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58775 ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58768 ... 8192?hl=en
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Well there's this from a TfN document, which rather suggests the Doncaster bypass would be improved online:
You don't say you're 'improving' the existing bypass if you're building a new outer bypass. And by far the most likely improvement to the existing bypass is ALR, given space constraints.A1 Doncaster to Darrington: Upgrading the A1 in Yorkshire to motorway standard, improving the notoriously congested Doncaster bypass and replacing the outdated stretch of dual carriageway between Doncaster and the M62. Coupled with improvements in the Midlands, this would create a ‘Yorkshire bypass’, allowing long distance traffic to stay off the M1 and improve conditions around Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds.
Of course it is the Doncaster section that I am saying is directly affected by the ALR announcement, but the section north of there won't be built if extra capacity isn't provided on the Doncaster bypass, which has higher volumes. Hence the backburner.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Here comes the obvious British Fudge where they'll build an offline D2M north of Redhouse... although arguably if the scheme is purely safety that would be fine, it would totally make the Donny bit stand out as even worse than it already is though.jackal wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 08:42Well there's this from a TfN document, which rather suggests the Doncaster bypass would be improved online:You don't say you're 'improving' the existing bypass if you're building a new outer bypass. And by far the most likely improvement to the existing bypass is ALR, given space constraints.A1 Doncaster to Darrington: Upgrading the A1 in Yorkshire to motorway standard, improving the notoriously congested Doncaster bypass and replacing the outdated stretch of dual carriageway between Doncaster and the M62. Coupled with improvements in the Midlands, this would create a ‘Yorkshire bypass’, allowing long distance traffic to stay off the M1 and improve conditions around Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds.
Of course it is the Doncaster section that I am saying is directly affected by the ALR announcement, but the section north of there won't be built if extra capacity isn't provided on the Doncaster bypass, which has higher volumes. Hence the backburner.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
These were originally 2 schemes that were combined which suggests rather more will be happening than a simple widening and ALRjackal wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 08:42
You don't say you're 'improving' the existing bypass if you're building a new outer bypass. And by far the most likely improvement to the existing bypass is ALR, given space constraints.
Of course it is the Doncaster section that I am saying is directly affected by the ALR announcement, but the section north of there won't be built if extra capacity isn't provided on the Doncaster bypass, which has higher volumes. Hence the backburner.
Considering the precedent of Wetherby to Darrington I would expect an offline upgrade of the A1 to the West of Skellow with the old A1 becoming the all purpose LAR designated A162.
Widening the A1(M) south of Doncaster to Blythe would be simple enough
This leaves the section of the A1(M) between Darrington and the M18. The big problem here is the Don Bridge which is seriously sub standard and has been fitted with upgraded barriers that seem to preclude widening.
My guess would be that a second bridge across the Don Valley would be a likely option. We know from the NFU that Highways England have been consulting with farmers which suggests a sizable land take us being considered.
https://www.nfuonline.com/updates-and-i ... arrington/
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Indeed and that right now is the major traffic hotspot in both directions.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Despite people thinking I somehow hate new roads these days (I don't, I hate induced demand schemes that facilitate more traffic instead of benefitting existing flows), the only online fix for Doncaster is to bite the bullet and demolish J36 entirely. You could perhaps then make an argument that the A6182 provides a better route into the city centre, and spend the money you'd have to coming up with an elaborate J36 to fix the M18 connections to the A6182.
The Don bridge is a cakewalk in comparison.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
-
- Member
- Posts: 1724
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
- Location: Leeds
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Or maybe it could be just built to D3M quality with hardshoulders well Darrington to Redhouse offline anyway…… it’s quite strange when people go on about smart motorways but then never mention the A14!, I understand the A14 isn’t a motorway from Cambridge to Huntingdon but it very nearly was, if it had become the A14(M) as mentioned part way through the project then it was have been a D3M smart motorway…… so I will ask the question how come nobody ever moans about the A14 not having hardshoulders?
The reason is the new A14 replaced an outdated D2, you could compare traffic volume wise to the A1 Darrington to Redhouse, so anything was an improvement, I think the only reason smart motorways get bad press is due to the fact the hardshoulders were removed whereas the A14 never had them….
So why couldn’t the A1 be upgraded like the A14?
Either way I live beside the A1 on Hillcrest in Skellow and the congestion and daily accidents are crazy, the fact the lay-bys had to be removed as it was too dangerous to get in and out surely tell the problems of this section of A1, it’s simply ridiculous how it is now, totally outdated and dangerous, I seriously believe it’s the most needed upgrade in the UK now.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Because the A1, unlike the A14, would feed into a severely congested unimproved bypass. The A14 Cambridge northern bypass had a running lane added, precisely the improvement that is needed but unlikely on the Doncaster bypass without ALR. The absolutism of the anti-ALR brigade has snookered this mostly non-ALR scheme.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
NICK 647063 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 16:47Or maybe it could be just built to D3M quality with hardshoulders well Darrington to Redhouse offline anyway…… it’s quite strange when people go on about smart motorways but then never mention the A14!, I understand the A14 isn’t a motorway from Cambridge to Huntingdon but it very nearly was, if it had become the A14(M) as mentioned part way through the project then it was have been a D3M smart motorway…… so I will ask the question how come nobody ever moans about the A14 not having hardshoulders?
Because it's got soft shoulders for much of the length - so if you need to get away from the live carriageway, you can do so. Yes, you could sink in the mud, but I'd say that's preferable to being rear-ended by a HGV.
Compare: https://goo.gl/maps/kGkGnA6aBpBMNjxi6 with https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7052148 ... 384!8i8192
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
I've been banging this drum for years and years now. Some of the decision making has been utterly mind blowing - stupid and dangerous.c2R wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 18:03NICK 647063 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 16:47Or maybe it could be just built to D3M quality with hardshoulders well Darrington to Redhouse offline anyway…… it’s quite strange when people go on about smart motorways but then never mention the A14!, I understand the A14 isn’t a motorway from Cambridge to Huntingdon but it very nearly was, if it had become the A14(M) as mentioned part way through the project then it was have been a D3M smart motorway…… so I will ask the question how come nobody ever moans about the A14 not having hardshoulders?
Because it's got soft shoulders for much of the length - so if you need to get away from the live carriageway, you can do so. Yes, you could sink in the mud, but I'd say that's preferable to being rear-ended by a HGV.
Compare: https://goo.gl/maps/kGkGnA6aBpBMNjxi6 with https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7052148 ... 384!8i8192
Check this out near Tibshelf...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1459349 ... 384!8i8192
The original services "Stubs" - plenty of space to get well away from the live lanes, plenty of hard standing for any recovery truck. Nope - block the lot off please. Just insanity.
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
Not so I am afraid, these were stubs built for where Tibshelf Services were expected to be built but it was actually built farther south and they were never used. There is no road access to them. Turning it into refuge would I suppose be possible. However there are a number of equipment cabinets and the like which would complicate matters. Plus there is already a refuge just over a mile north of there.Hdeng16 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 09:36
I've been banging this drum for years and years now. Some of the decision making has been utterly mind blowing - stupid and dangerous.
Check this out near Tibshelf...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1459349 ... 384!8i8192
The original services "Stubs" - plenty of space to get well away from the live lanes, plenty of hard standing for any recovery truck. Nope - block the lot off please. Just insanity.outh
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1478801 ... 312!8i6656
You can see this quite clearly from the Mansfield Road bridge.https://motorwayservices.uk/Tibshelf wrote: See also: M1 Service Area Planning
The service area was planned to be a few hundred yards further up the M1. Underneath the Mansfield Road bridge are two ghost slips (partly removed in the 2016 roadworks). These lined up with two more that were removed to build the entry from the current Tibshelf services.
These four ghost slips were built with the M1, and would have allowed a more traditional service area (with straight slip roads) to be built in the field north of the modern Tibshelf services. This was planned to be done when the adjacent two service areas reached full capacity. A total of 19 acres was purchased by the Ministry of Transport for developing into the service area. Some of that land was later sold to develop Willow Court, which makes the original plan harder to imagine.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1468717 ... 384!8i8192
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
I think that was the point being made - that expanse of tarmac could have been another refuge area instead of being physically blocked off and forcing people into live lanes if they come to a stop.KeithW wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:11Not so I am afraid, these were stubs built for where Tibshelf Services were expected to be built but it was actually built farther south and they were never used. There is no road access to them. Turning it into refuge would I suppose be possible. However there are a number of equipment cabinets and the like which would complicate matters. Plus there is already a refuge just over a mile north of there.Hdeng16 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 09:36
I've been banging this drum for years and years now. Some of the decision making has been utterly mind blowing - stupid and dangerous.
Check this out near Tibshelf...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1459349 ... 384!8i8192
The original services "Stubs" - plenty of space to get well away from the live lanes, plenty of hard standing for any recovery truck. Nope - block the lot off please. Just insanity.outh
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1478801 ... 312!8i6656
You can see this quite clearly from the Mansfield Road bridge.https://motorwayservices.uk/Tibshelf wrote: See also: M1 Service Area Planning
The service area was planned to be a few hundred yards further up the M1. Underneath the Mansfield Road bridge are two ghost slips (partly removed in the 2016 roadworks). These lined up with two more that were removed to build the entry from the current Tibshelf services.
These four ghost slips were built with the M1, and would have allowed a more traditional service area (with straight slip roads) to be built in the field north of the modern Tibshelf services. This was planned to be done when the adjacent two service areas reached full capacity. A total of 19 acres was purchased by the Ministry of Transport for developing into the service area. Some of that land was later sold to develop Willow Court, which makes the original plan harder to imagine.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1468717 ... 384!8i8192
These design choices have all been extremely poor, the public relations even worse. It's no wonder we are now in a situation where a relatively simple method of improving motorway capacity is turning into one of the biggest transport scandals of recent times.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse
That'd work fine, though I'd say that you'd probably need to replace it with a new junction on the M18 to serve traffic to places like Conisbrough and New Edlington. The A6182 serves Doncaster but not the places west of the M18.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:59 Despite people thinking I somehow hate new roads these days (I don't, I hate induced demand schemes that facilitate more traffic instead of benefitting existing flows), the only online fix for Doncaster is to bite the bullet and demolish J36 entirely. You could perhaps then make an argument that the A6182 provides a better route into the city centre, and spend the money you'd have to coming up with an elaborate J36 to fix the M18 connections to the A6182.
The Don bridge is a cakewalk in comparison.
- SouthWest Philip
- Member
- Posts: 3483
- Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 19:35
- Location: Evesham, Worcestershire