Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

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jemster
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Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by jemster »

Hello I am on a mission to replace missing directional signs on a black and
white post in Church road Ashford and trying to find what would have been
on the finger posts ? stanwell b3778 Feltham B3003 and Laleham B377 ? maybe
Staines A 308 ?
I can find no photos and want to get it right
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RichardA35
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Re: Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by RichardA35 »

Welcome
A question - Are we looking at a westbound direction along Church Road approaching the Fordbridge Road Junction (B377) where this bare black and white post exists?
Here on GSV modern image.

Thinking about the era of fingerposts a few things come to mind:
1. they were likely in place before the numbering of roads during the inter-war period of the 20th century.
2. Locations and mileage featured but numbers were added as a supplementary feature hence the "added on" A404 number on the photo referenced below.
3. The likely arrangement is as this picture of the fingerpost in Harrow (same basic style and structure of the post (an image search on Google for "Middlesex fingerpost signs" reveals this and possibly others) but with different places and mileages - the font and style is something that will take some time to get right - All capitals seem to be the norm.
4. If there are no pictures of what was there before, then there will be little chance of whatever is placed on the sign being called out as incorrect...
jemster
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Re: Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by jemster »

Yes Richard, that's the black and white post in question.

My research so far suggests only the next town on the sign with the B road reference in this case Stanwell B378, Feltham B3003 and Laleham B377 and no mileage distance.

And a good point if no one remembers who can challenge it ? great answer and thank you for your reply

Best wishes
Jeremy
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Chris5156
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Re: Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by Chris5156 »

RichardA35 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:322. Locations and mileage featured but numbers were added as a supplementary feature hence the "added on" A404 number on the photo referenced below.
3. The likely arrangement is as this picture of the fingerpost in Harrow (same basic style and structure of the post (an image search on Google for "Middlesex fingerpost signs" reveals this and possibly others) but with different places and mileages - the font and style is something that will take some time to get right - All capitals seem to be the norm.
While road numbers were retrospectively added to existing fingerposts in the 1920s, when the numbers were first allocated, the convention of having the number on the end of the flag in the style shown in that picture persisted for decades and many new signs were made in that way.

FWIW your specific example of a fingerpost in Harrow is almost certainly a pair of reproduction signs mounted on an old post. The font on both appears to be a condensed version of either Univers or Helvetica, neither of which existed before the 1950s/60s. They are a decent attempt at a reproduction but not a perfect one!

The convention from the early 1920s (when numbers were first applied to roads) until the 1940s was for A-road numbers to appear in black on a white background, and B-road numbers to appear in white on a black background. Placenames always appeared in black on white, and always in capitals.
jemster wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:05stanwell b3778 Feltham B3003 and Laleham B377 ? maybe
Staines A 308 ?
One difficulty here is that the road numbers now are not exactly the same as they would have been when the sign was erected. You may have to choose between using authentic numbers from the early 20th century, which are now misleading, or correct numbers to aid navigation today, which are not historically authentic.

You can see how the area looked when numbers were first applied in 1923 here on SABRE Maps. This was the junction of B377 and B378, with the B378 reappearing a little way to the east. But the B3003 did not exist then. My guess - and it's only a guess - would be that your three arms would be Staines, Feltham and Ashford.
jemster
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Re: Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by jemster »

Fab Chris thank you

So your guess Staines, Feltham and Ashford not Staines, Feltham and Stanwell?

The sign is in the middle of Ashford Church road is really the 'high street' in real terms.

Great feedback very useful

Best wishes
Jeremy
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RichardA35
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Re: Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by RichardA35 »

Looking at Friths this image appears to have some details although it's difficult to obtain good resolution even on a large monitor - perhaps the bought version would be better?
It appears to have a road number (B377?) and a destination (Staines?) but the number of other arms and destinations are indistinct
https://www.francisfrith.com/ashford,su ... 965_a70056
jemster
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Re: Church Road Ashford Middlesex TW15

Post by jemster »

thank you all I have a picture of the one in Laleham Broadway so got the font and going with Feltham, Staines and Stanwell with no distances or b road numbers as these were added at a later date, the Laleham sign confirms this as an addition

Best wishes
Jeremy
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